# Why does the USADA have jurisdiction to strip Lance Armstrong of his Tour de France titles? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 24, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454 "2012-08-24T04:23:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/1 "2012-08-24T04:23:44Z")
Regardless of whether Lance Armstrong is or is not guilty of doping, I’m confused as to how the United States Anti Doping Agency can claim to authority to strip someone of a title won in a race held in France. Especially since the sources I’ve read indicate that the International Cycling Union is taking Lance’s side. I mean, regardless of whether he is gulty or innocent, I don’t see how the French Cycling Federation or the International Cycling Union doesn’t get final say in this. Can someone please explain to me what I am missing? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/2 "2012-08-24T14:22:08Z")
There was a brief mention of it in an interview on NPR this morning, I think something about how the USADA is a signatory to the World Anti-Doping Code and associated with the [World Anti-Doping Agency](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Anti-Doping_Code) and the UNESCO International Convention against Doping in Sport, so its decisions are honored by the Tour de France. I might be getting the specifics wrong, but it was something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/3 "2012-08-24T14:39:15Z")
Bah…I look at it the same way I see wins stripped from schools in team sports. People that saw the contests will remember what happened on the field. Nobody cares about what some ruling body decided years later. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/4 "2012-08-24T14:56:44Z")
Of course, those runners up are all TOTALLY clean, not like Armstrong. Let’s see: 1999: Alex Zulle, Switzerland: [admitted to doping](http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jul98/jul27.shtml) 2000: Jan Ullrich, Germany: [post-retirement symbolic ban for doping](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/sports/cycling/court-finds-cyclist-jan-ullrich-guilty-of-blood-doping.html) 2001: Jan Ullrich, Germany: see above 2002: Joseba Beloki, Spain: [cleanest of the bunch, only _linked_ to a doping scandal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case) 2003: Jan Ullrich, Germany: see above 2004: Andreas Kloden, Germany: [paid a fine to halt a doping investiation](http://robertsaunders.org.uk/index.php/time-trials/time-trial-photo-gallery/36-myblog/cycling/665-andreas-kloeden-buys-out-of-doping-investigation) 2005: Ivan Basso, Italy: [two-year ban for doping](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/sports/cycling/20cycling.html) ---
**Author:** ![csupp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@csupp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/csupp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/5 "2012-08-24T15:06:57Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Of course, those runners up are all TOTALLY clean, not like Armstrong. > > Let’s see: > > 1999: Alex Zulle, Switzerland: [admitted to doping](http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jul98/jul27.shtml) > > 2000: Jan Ullrich, Germany: [post-retirement symbolic ban for doping](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/sports/cycling/court-finds-cyclist-jan-ullrich-guilty-of-blood-doping.html) > > 2001: Jan Ullrich, Germany: see above > > 2002: Joseba Beloki, Spain: [cleanest of the bunch, only _linked_ to a doping scandal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case) > > 2003: Jan Ullrich, Germany: see above > > 2004: Andreas Kloden, Germany: [paid a fine to halt a doping investiation](http://robertsaunders.org.uk/index.php/time-trials/time-trial-photo-gallery/36-myblog/cycling/665-andreas-kloeden-buys-out-of-doping-investigation) > > 2005: Ivan Basso, Italy: [two-year ban for doping](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/sports/cycling/20cycling.html) Almost seems like a trend. So the guy who beat all of those guys was clean? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/6 "2012-08-24T15:42:18Z")
> [@csupp](#): > > Almost seems like a trend. So the guy who beat all of those guys was clean? No, Armstrong was doping, just like all his competitors. I watch the Tour for the lovely shots of the countryside. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/7 "2012-08-24T21:39:13Z")
A good article here, summarising why USADA is likely to make this stick: > **[Lance Armstrong Quits](https://inrng.com/2012/08/lance-armstrong-quits/#more-10570)** > > Lance Armstrong has said he will not contest the charges brought by US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) and has issued a statement citing procedural matters and fatigue as the reason why he's not going to challenge the agency. Later today USADA is expected... ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/8 "2012-08-24T22:14:14Z")
My understanding, which may not be completely accurate but I think is fairly close, is that it works like this. The USADA is a signatory to the WADA anti-doping code. So is the UCI. As such, the UCI are obligated to honor the USADA decisions that are backed by the WADA, which the WADA has done in this case. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/9 "2012-08-24T22:36:52Z")
So he’ll receive a lifetime ban from Olympic sports. But the TdF isn’t an Olympic event. Or is it? I’m confused now. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/10 "2012-08-24T23:13:30Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So he’ll receive a lifetime ban from Olympic sports. But the TdF isn’t an Olympic event. Or is it? I’m confused now. Seriously, just read the link above. It’s short, clear and outlines the ifs and buts. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/11 "2012-08-24T23:14:48Z")
And in case clicking on a link is too much work: > [@](#): > > Can he be stripped of his titles? > Yes. USADA is an agency working under the World Anti-Doping Agency rules. If an athlete waives their right to a hearing then here is 8.3 of the WADA Code: > > Waiver of Hearing > The right to a hearing may be waived either expressly or by the Athlete’s or other Person’s failure to challenge an Anti-Doping Organization’s assertion that an anti-doping rule violation has occurred within the specific time period provided in the Anti-Doping Organization’s rules. Where no hearing occurs, the Anti-Doping Organization with results management responsibility shall submit to the Persons described in Article 13.2.3 a reasoned decision explaining the action taken. > > In short waiving the hearing means USADA can reach a “reasoned decision” based on the evidence at its disposal. If USADA rules there is a doping offence, imposes a lifetime ban and says he should be stripped of his wins then this applies worldwide. It is then for the UCI, as cycling’s governing body, to await the decision and issue the formal notice stripping Armstrong of his wins which it must do to comply with the WADA Code. All prize monies must be repaid too. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/12 "2012-08-24T23:22:39Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Seriously, just read the link above. It’s short, clear and outlines the ifs and buts. > [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > And in case clicking on a link is too much work: Thank you for your snotty and unhelpful contribution. Is the Tour de France an Olympic event or not? The question is not for you. Please don’t answer it. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/13 "2012-08-24T23:35:06Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Thank you for your snotty and unhelpful contribution. Is the Tour de France an Olympic event or not? The question is not for you. Please don’t answer it. If you have a problem with my responses above, advise a mod. I am puzzled as to how much more elaboration you require. The Tour De France is one of the tours run by the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI). As linked and quoted above, the UCI has adopted WADA’s code. As such, and as quoted above: “If USADA rules there is a doping offence, imposes a lifetime ban and says he should be stripped of his wins then this applies worldwide. It is then for the UCI, as cycling’s governing body, to await the decision and issue the formal notice stripping Armstrong of his wins which it must do to comply with the WADA Code.” You have protested this is too unhelpful or snotty for you. If you could elaborate which bits are unhelpful/snotty, I’ll try to simplify. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/14 "2012-08-25T00:15:53Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > You have protested this is too unhelpful or snotty for you. If you could elaborate which bits are unhelpful/snotty, I’ll try to simplify. Honest question: Why then is the UCI saying the USADA doesn’t have the authority? 'Cause they are. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/15 "2012-08-25T00:36:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Thank you for your snotty and unhelpful contribution. Is the Tour de France an Olympic event or not? The question is not for you. Please don’t answer it. No of course it isn’t, but what’s the relevance? > [@Zakalwe](#): > > Honest question: Why then is the UCI saying the USADA doesn’t have the authority? 'Cause they are. I don’t know. But an Austin court just issued a decision disagreeing with the UCI, so I’m not sure it matters much. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/16 "2012-08-25T01:33:09Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Honest question: Why then is the UCI saying the USADA doesn’t have the authority? 'Cause they are. They aren’t saying that anymore, but they originally said that because they’ve long been complicit in doping. They helped cover up at least one and probably other positive tests for Armstrong. One made it to the news, the cortisone positive in the 1999 Tour de France. I consider that one fact rather than allegation since it was widely reported at the time. Another allegation was a positive in the 2001 Tour of Switzerland where the UCI intervened. It doesn’t help that Armstrong donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the UCI, which is also fact rather than allegation. This is one of the many reasons anti-doping testing was moved to more independent bodies in WADA and the national agencies. You can’t trust the organization that runs a sport to apply the rules equally, particularly if it will end up costing the governing body (UCI in this case) money because of bad press. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/17 "2012-08-27T01:47:37Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > If you have a problem with my responses above, advise a mod. You know as well as I do that the mods will not stop someone from bring rude and condescending. If you want to call out someone for that type of behavior, you have to do it yourself. It’s quite obvious what of your response was rude and condescending. It was when you treated him like he was too stupid to click the link. It’s obvious to anyone who can read that it says absolutely nothing about whether Tour de France is an Olympic sport, and thus doesn’t answer his question. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/18 "2012-08-27T02:19:34Z")
The Tour de France occurs every year. It’s obviously not an Olympic sport. Mystery solved. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/19 "2012-08-27T21:40:20Z")
**levdrakon** , **BigT** , stop being tools. **Gary** , keep on truckin’. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454/20 "2012-08-27T23:37:16Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > **levdrakon** , **BigT** , stop being tools. > > **Gary** , keep on truckin’. > > –Cliffy Excuse me? **BigT** is exactly right. If you want to be a pedantic snot, at least read the question before linking to an irrelevant article. Otherwise you sound even stupider. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-usada-have-jurisdiction-to-strip-lance-armstrong-of-his-tour-de-france-titles/632454.md?page=2)