# Why does this board lean Democrat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626 "2013-04-24T23:00:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/281 "2013-04-30T20:01:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The wealth wasn’t generated by taximg the poor, since as you note they don’t have wealth to begin with. It was to be generated by slashing government expenditures that serve to reduce the hardships on the poor. > > Didn’t you understand that? I understand that is your take on it fine, Hentor, but you don’t seem to be grasping the actual problem people are having with the statement about Paul. Not everyone sees this issue the way you do, Hentor, so attempting to ascribe harsh motives to someone who doesn’t is really the issue…an issue you, again, seem to not be grasping. We could (and have) debated taxation and policy issues on this board in the forum many times. I recognize that there is a vast gulf between where, say, you stand on things and where I do. I don’t, however, ascribe horrible reasons to why you feel the way you do about things, merely mark it up to a difference in perspective. The attack on Paul, however, wasn’t such an instance…it was basically a partisan attack ascribing the worst possible motives to why he advocated something. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/282 "2013-04-30T20:12:51Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I understand that is your take on it fine, Hentor, but you don’t seem to be grasping the actual problem people are having with the statement about Paul. Not everyone sees this issue the way you do, Hentor, so attempting to ascribe harsh motives to someone who doesn’t is really the issue…an issue you, again, seem to not be grasping. We could (and have) debated taxation and policy issues on this board in the forum many times. I recognize that there is a vast gulf between where, say, you stand on things and where I do. I don’t, however, ascribe horrible reasons to why you feel the way you do about things, merely mark it up to a difference in perspective. The attack on Paul, however, wasn’t such an instance…it was basically a partisan attack ascribing the worst possible motives to why he advocated something. > > See the difference? Well, there’s two issues. First was your ignorance about Ryan’s (you seem to be on a first name basis with “Paul”) budget, and whether it represented a shift in wealth from funding a safety net to tax reductions for the wealthy. There should be no doubt about that. Please review the cites I provided or find your own if you still struggle with this. The second issue is Ryan’s intent. I agree that it is possible his proposals resulted from depraved indifference instead of outright malicious intent. I don’t find this to be consistent with his moochers and looters remarks, but it is possible. Ultimately, his proposals were not accidents. He had time to think about them. I find it notable that, despite people calling attention to the morality of his 2012 proposal, his 2013 proposal was even more cruel. So, careful, deliberative depraved indifference or malicious intent? Ultimately, there’s not much of a difference. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/283 "2013-04-30T20:19:59Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Well, there’s two issues. First was your ignorance about Ryan’s (you seem to be on a first name basis with “Paul”) budget, and whether it represented a shift in wealth from funding a safety net to tax reductions for the wealthy. There should be no doubt about that. Please review the cites I provided or find your own if you still struggle with this. [/QUOTE] Are you saying his name isn’t Paul Ryan, or simply that you didn’t realize who I was talking about and decided I was just ignorant about it, despite the fact I’ve participated in several debates about this? 😛 > [@](#): > > The second issue is Ryan’s intent. I agree that it is possible his proposals resulted from depraved indifference instead of outright malicious intent. I don’t find this to be consistent with his moochers and looters remarks, but it is possible. Ah, so you DO grasp the issue. Yet, you cling to your partisan outlook and that it’s all good. I see. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, his proposals were not accidents. He had time to think about them. I find it notable that, despite people calling attention to the morality of his 2012 proposal, his 2013 proposal was even more cruel. Who said they were accidents? Back to ‘not grasping the issue’ again, or really understanding what is being discussed. Well, at least you can feel superior because I called Paul Ryan ‘Paul’ and, really, don’t know anything about this. > [@](#): > > So, careful, deliberative depraved indifference or malicious intent? Ultimately, there’s not much of a difference. And there is no middle ground between those of course. What’s that called when only the strawman extremes are the only possible view? I can’t recall…it’s right on the tip of my tongue… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/284 "2013-04-30T20:28:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Bull. This whole “Conservatives are going elsewhere because they aren’t being treated fairly here” thing going on certainly implies that they are going somewhere more “fair”. Asking what they would consider to be fair on a board more to they liking is certainly within reason. Are they leaving to go to a liberal board that treats them better, a neutral board that treats everyone the same, or a conservative board where they get to be top dog? Where they go from here tells us what they would want to go on here if they were to stay, wouldn’t you say? No, you are just trying to change the subject. This is not a discussion about any other message boards. The question asked is “Why does _ **this** _ board lean Democrat?” If you want to talk about something else, start a different thread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/285 "2013-04-30T20:57:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Bull. This whole “Conservatives are going elsewhere because they aren’t being treated fairly here” thing going on certainly implies that they are going somewhere more “fair”. I don’t think that’s implied at all. They are likely going to a board that leans conservative where they can dog-pile onto any liberals. I used to be a heavy poster at such a board; it become more and more partisan as liberals left because of the nonsense. It became unbearable, even for a centrist like me. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > So, careful, deliberative depraved indifference or malicious intent? Ultimately, there’s not much of a difference. Do you hate all rich people? Is every motive of yours driven by malicious intent towards them? ---
**Author:** ![donnie\_darko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@donnie\_darko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donnie_darko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/286 "2013-04-30T20:58:10Z")
Reality tends to have a liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/287 "2013-04-30T21:07:25Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > Reality tends to have a liberal bias. Wow, never heard that before! Thanks for the insight. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![donnie\_darko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@donnie\_darko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donnie_darko)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/288 "2013-04-30T21:08:35Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Wow, never heard that before! Thanks for the insight. 😛 It’s a cliche for a reason. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/289 "2013-04-30T21:57:06Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > It’s a cliche for a reason. 😛 I suspect that it is much more of a bromide than a cliché. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/290 "2013-04-30T22:12:27Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t think that’s implied at all. They are likely going to a board that leans conservative where they can dog-pile onto any liberals. I used to be a heavy poster at such a board; it become more and more partisan as liberals left because of the nonsense. It became unbearable, even for a centrist like me. > > Do you hate all rich people? Is every motive of yours driven by malicious intent towards them? What about my proposed budget would you point to to support such an assertion? Please cite where I said that every motivation of Paul Ryan’s is driven by malicious intent towards the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/291 "2013-04-30T22:40:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, you are just trying to change the subject. This is not a discussion about any other message boards. The question asked is “Why does _ **this** _ board lean Democrat?” > > If you want to talk about something else, start a different thread. > > Regards, > Shodan Actually, I think he has a point. It’s relevant to the question of “treated fairly” to ask if any board that leaned as far conservative as this board leans liberal would treat their minority liberals better. It’s true that this was not the original question in play, but my own posts raised the secondary issue. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/292 "2013-04-30T22:46:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, I think he has a point. > > It’s relevant to the question of “treated fairly” to ask if any board that leaned as far conservative as this board leans liberal would treat their minority liberals better. > > It’s true that this was not the original question in play, but my own posts raised the secondary issue. I kind of doubt it; it would be the same sort of pileon, just in the opposite direction. However, I’m not aware of any conservative leaning boards that aren’t explicitly political- are there any? That’s what makes the pile-on here so frustrating- it’s not supposed to be explicitly political, but it seems like 60% of threads devolve into that sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Blkshp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blkshp/32/7135_2.png) [@Blkshp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blkshp)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/293 "2013-05-01T00:27:58Z")
> [@donnie\_darko](#): > > It’s a cliche for a reason. 😛 It is here. [http:www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/294 "2013-05-01T00:36:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Strawman. I never identified it as “the best.” But it’s useful for two reasons: it’s on the front page and current, requiring no real searching; and it’s a very clear factual issue – that is, the factual claims made by the OP have been clearly refuted. > > So I offered it as an example of a factual issue on which the lefty poster was convincingly rebutted, and none of the hard-core Democrats posting therein have acknowledged the refutation. This, in my view, is a serious counter to the claim floated in _this_ thread that the liberal contingent here is all about calm factual reasoning, and the conservative contingent here are the only ones unmoved by calm factual reasoning. > > So what? The OP of that thread is **RTFirefly** , certainly a major player here. And since I’ve linked to it, you yourself are now aware of the issue. Why don’t you go weigh in on the subject? > > Part of the issue is simply refusing to engage on an issue where the left is wrong – this allows the ones who DO engage to stand virtually unrefuted. > > Agreed. There is no objectively right answer on gun control. > > But there is an objectively right answer on the validity of pitting the NRA for opposing taggants in gunpowder such that hindered the Boston bomb investigation. > > Right? > > That’s not my contention. Your contention sure _seemed_ to be that conservatives like you concede some slam-dunk major issues like Climate Change and that liberals here do not concede similar slam-dunk issues for the Right. I asked you to give an example of such a slam-dunk issue for the Right. If Taggants wasn’t yoiur response to that request then I resubmit the request. I did not request an example where a point of fact was not acknowledged, if that is what happened in that thread about a subject I care nothing about. Nor was your point that conservatives are quick to jump on other conservatives for failure to acknowledge a point, even joining threads they have no interest in to do so while liberals do not. No dispute that some posters here are jerks. I see that behavior if anything more commonly likely coming from a self-identified conservative than from a self-identified liberal but the jerkish behavior is not aimed just at political discussions. And there are plenty of liberal jerks here. The jerks are jerks across the board. Moderation, to my read, is consistent, or at least consistently inconsistent, and allows for a moderate amount of jerkishness from all on all subjects. So far I am still waiting for an example of a slam-dunk issue that liberals here fail to acknowledge like you (and a few other conservatives) do Climate Change. Reality is that there is no such issue that many liberals here have not acknowledged. There is a certain irony here - the poor conservatives blaming their perceived small numbers on imagined discriminations. Why have conservatives left? Oh let’s do a case study. **OMG** disappeared right after the election. Why? Was it because he was discriminated against? Modded harder than liberal posters? Or just embarrassed that his predictions were so so so wrong. Conservatives have taken positions that have been wrong, Iraq, Climate Change, so on, and they have often left rather than have to admit their being wrong. Why are fewer conservatives attracted to this board? The current GOP and conservative movement is seriously anti-intellectual. It distrusts science and scientists. It panders to fundamentalists. Those who are attracted to this board tend to be of an intellectual bent (not higher IQ per se, I am referencing interest and identity, habits of mind, and that correlates not with a college degree but with post graduate degrees if anything) and that group contains more liberals than conservatives. The current conservative movement has largely driven those moderately conservative intellectuals out. Some of you represent a minority that remain. And some of you, like some liberals, are jerks. Intellectual jerks, but jerks. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/295 "2013-05-01T01:22:18Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Why have conservatives left? Oh let’s do a case study. OMG disappeared right after the election. Why? Was it because he was discriminated against? Modded harder than liberal posters? Or just embarrassed that his predictions were so so so wrong. Conservatives have taken positions that have been wrong, Iraq, Climate Change, so on, and they have often left rather than have to admit their being wrong. [/QUOTE] Interesting. I remember when Bush II was running against Kerry, and all the predictions that Bush was going down. I myself made such a prediction, though it was more wishful thinking than based on any hard evidence. Yet, Bush won and Kerry went down. There wasn’t a similar fleeing of liberals, shamed by their predictive powers failing them so completely. In fact, the level of rhetoric and venom only increased. Why? Because liberals are just better able to accept defeat? Or because OMG was one of the few crazy right wingers left here, and was basically hounded out by the near overwhelming number of 'dopers just itching to rub his face in his failed predictions and unpopular stances on things? I’m going with what’s behind curtain number two, personally. Personally, I don’t think his bolting is any great loss, but I think it’s a major fail as a proof of your theory. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/296 "2013-05-01T01:31:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > . > > Why have conservatives left? Oh let’s do a case study. **OMG** disappeared right after the election. Why? Was it because he was discriminated against? Modded harder than liberal posters? Or just embarrassed that his predictions were so so so wrong. Conservatives have taken positions that have been wrong, Iraq, Climate Change, so on, and they have often left rather than have to admit their being wrong. I remember **OMG** sticking around and standing up to say he was wrong and getting some respect for it. It was \*\*adaher \*\*that vanished for months. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/297 "2013-05-01T01:38:59Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > I understand it, since if liberals could reason like conservatives do, they would no longer be liberals, Have you ever objectively studied the reasoning ability of some conservative like Rush Limbaugh who talks a lot five days a week? How about Sean Hannity? How about Reverend Pat Robertson? How about Michele Bachman? Rick Perry? Alan West? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/298 "2013-05-01T01:55:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I understand it, since if liberals could reason like conservatives do, they would no longer be liberals, -Originally Posted by puddleglum It is hard to accept ‘reasoning’ as a conservative ability since a simple grasp of the facts would be the first step needed in order to engage in reasoning. > [@](#): > > When it was first passed ObamaCare was advertised as contained 1.4 trillion in deficit savings. It quickly became clear that the 700 billion CLASS was going to save was unworkable. Next the taxes the new rules on 1099s was supposed to raise were overturned. \*\*Now ObamaCare is supposed to be just revenue neutral. \*\*There has been a change in the projections that have added a trillion dollars to the cost of ObamaCare since it was passed and it has not even been implemented yet. Given the history of government healthcare projections I expect more cost increases as implementation grows imminent. -puddleglum #012 04-12-2013 11:39 AM 102a1139. When Obama Care was passed it was not advertised as producing 1.4 trillion in deficit savings. And then what $700 billion went away? How can Obama Care 'NOW" be revenue neutral but “a change in the projections that have added a trillion dollars to the cost of Obama Care since it was passed” happen? You are at least a trillion dollars off from “Neutral” which is zero to a trillion dollars added. So where is the Conservative Reason, Here? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/299 "2013-05-01T02:11:29Z")
Besides the already mentioned worldwide audience thing, the (Western) internet is mostly about: 1. porn 2. celebrity gossip 3. science/technology Not exactly attractive to American conservatives. > [@For You](#): > > Whatever begets the notion that people move to the right as they age, it is just idiotic. It suggests that conservatism is more pragmatic than liberalism, which has been shown, time and again, to not be the case. People become more conservative as they age, but not in the way the phrase implies. People become more conservative because the zeitgeist leaves them behind. Conservatives today who support miscegenation and homosexuality and women in the military would’ve been yesterday’s liberals. Liberals today will be tomorrow’s conservatives, unless the trend reverses or stalls. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/300 "2013-05-01T11:44:29Z")
XT, I was here then too, and I do not remember “all the predictions” being like that. Oh there were a few posters who said things like that. And many others who were hopeful that such would happen. Most were expecting a close election. See [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=283950) right before, and [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=278328). There was no “all predictions” especially not of a landslide and no claims that the polling companies that showed Bush leading were skewing the books. (Some questions afterwards about voter machine sheenanigans, yes.) And as RP notes, my “right after” was not literally correct, it was soon after. In the immediate phase after he was roundly given kudos for coming back and saying that he was wrong. Not face rubbed in it. Amazing how overall decently most liberal partisans behaved under the circumstances. It is obvious to me that some of you will “remember” things as fits your personal poor persecuted discriminated against me narrative, no matter what reality was. What ev. Perhaps taking some personal responsibility for your circumstances is indicated? Marshmallow, conservatives don’t like porn and gossip? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626.md?page=16)