# Why does this board lean Democrat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626 "2013-04-24T23:00:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/481 "2013-05-11T02:06:44Z")
Like I said, you are misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/482 "2013-05-11T03:11:23Z")
It does seem that your quote does not support your statement. Just going by what is here, is all. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/483 "2013-05-11T18:40:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the NRA taggants thread, **elucidator** is now saying that the NRA somehow opposed adding taggants to fireworks powder. > > And there’s only one person gainsaying him. > > But here in this thread, Board stalwarts continue to nurse the idea that the Left’s position derives from reason and logic and science, and that THIS is why the board leans left. > > It’s very mysterious to me how both these positions endure simultaneously. Aside from the fact that your quotes don’t show what you say they do, the underlying concept of your objection makes no sense. You’ve been shown this before, but I’ll assume you simply forgot. What you quoted is a silly standard by which to judge the board. You can’t tell much about someone by _what they don’t post_. For instance, am I to assume you buy into the Benghazi-conspiracy nonsense because you don’t post in the two current threads about it? Am I to assume that you support every thread you don’t post something decrying the subject? It’s just a stupid way to try to scrape up a clot of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/484 "2013-05-11T20:23:19Z")
Sometimes I regret being misunderstood so much. Then I remember that if I were clearly understood, I’d have been stoned by now. I mean, like, with rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/485 "2013-05-11T21:25:30Z")
Because it’s less stupid than leaning Republican, and a majority of people here at least desire not to be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/486 "2013-05-11T21:26:45Z")
Hey luci, wanna get stoned with something else? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/487 "2013-05-12T02:48:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It does seem that your quote does not support your statement. Just going by what is here, is all. I’d appreciate your expanding this argument a bit. Are you saying that I failed to precisely quote him, or that my summary of his comments is unfair? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/488 "2013-05-12T03:51:52Z")
This: > [@Bricker](#): > > my summary of his comments is unfair Again, just going by what is presented here. Stating that something might be or might not be, stating what they think is more likely barring any evidence otherwise is not the same as making a claim. What you offered up is merely his saying “cite please” to your claim, not making a claim himself. Perhaps he does elsewhere, I do not know, but not in what you have provided. Again, I have not read and have no interest in reading that thread, but the point of contention based just on this seems to be you stating that the gunpowder used in fireworks would not have been covered in the legislation that the NRA apparently blocked, exempted, and 'luci questioning that claim, doubting it even, and requesting a cite in support of it. Not sure why you would expect others to slap him down for that. Also once again, it would not matter for the purposes of this thread if he was being a jerk and/or an idiot. Again, individual posters being jerks does not inform much; others ignoring or not noticing jerkish behavior does not inform much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/489 "2013-05-12T14:24:06Z")
OK, here’s what we do. I will post the opinion that all Republicans are goat-felching Nazis, without exception. Then, everybody here who’s political stance is anywhere to the left of Calvin Coolidge can march in and renounce, denounce and condemn the perfidious **'luc**. Bookmark the page. Then. the next time somebody tries to pull this happy horseshit, we simply reference the bookmark and say, no, look here, a genuine lefty, being renounced, denounced and condemned by lefties for calumny, perfidy and conduct unbecoming a hippy. I realize that this might well damage my spotless reputation amongst the tighty righties. But if stern duty demands… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/490 "2013-05-12T17:16:01Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > …all Republicans are goat-felching Nazis, without exception. Now, now 'luci. You can’t make blanket statements like that. There exists the extreme possibility that some Republicans have never had access to a goat. [/bricker\_shield] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/491 "2013-05-12T20:24:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, here’s what we do. I will post the opinion that all Republicans are goat-felching Nazis, without exception. Then, everybody here who’s political stance is anywhere to the left of Calvin Coolidge can march in and renounce, denounce and condemn the perfidious **'luc**. That won’t work. We will just think that **Der Trihs** borrowed your computer and we will ignore the post the way most of that nonsense gets ignored. The current issue, (in this rather silly discussion), is whether attacks on the Right that were both serious and unfair would prompt some sort of counter from the Left. The discussion is silly because even if we found examples of one side “policing” their own, the response by those (Left and Right) who insist on either claiming injury or claiming that such injury is more typical of “the other side” would be that there were not enough posters policing their own. Frankly, it is unlikely that we could even get broad consensus to categorize the majority of perceived attacks as either “attacks” or “unfair.” Those who recognize that the board does lean Left but that nastiness is still an individual activity and it is spread across the political spectrum are probably not generally interested in wading into this morass. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/492 "2013-05-12T20:31:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > This:Again, just going by what is presented here. > > Stating that something might be or might not be, stating what they think is more likely barring any evidence otherwise is not the same as making a claim. What you offered up is merely his saying “cite please” to your claim, not making a claim himself. Perhaps he does elsewhere, I do not know, but not in what you have provided. I don’t know where to begin. Are you familiar with the scorn heaped on people elsewhere on this board who use the “I’m just asking questions,” technique? There are many legitimate reasons to ask for a cite. But among their number is not this situation, in which I declare that the NRA **didn’t** take a particular action. I hope you see why this is so – there is no real way to cite an action not taken. That thread began with a claim that the NRA’s opposition to taggants in gunpowder frustrated law enforcement’s ability to quickly identify the Boston bombers. When it was revealed that the bombers used powder from fireworks, I said that the NRA never opposed taggants in fireworks. The person who claims they DID would be the one with the burden of proof. So I contend that this was not a genuine request for a cite, since what possible evidence could be offered as proof of the claim? If it’s not a genuine request for a cite, what was it? I contend it was a claim in its own right: a rhetor’s technique to advance a claim by demanding a cite carries the implicit claim that the failure to provide such a cite is proof of the contrary position. Indeed, **elucidator** asks the reader to infer that because the NRA once opposed gunpowder taggants, they also opposed fireworks taggants: > [@](#): > > Now, perhaps the NRA only offered opposition to taggants in firearm gunpowder, and specifically exempted fireworks gunpowder. “Oh, yeah, sure, fireworks gunpowder should be tagged, yeah, we are totally on board with that!” Seems unlikely, but if you offer me a citation to that effect… The sarcastic tone of the line attributed to the NRA and the clear statement that such a line (and such a position) is “unlikely” adds up to a rhetorical device that advances a claim. Just because it doesn’t explictly state the claim is no reason to pretend the claim doesn’t exist. Am I wrong in this? Honestly? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/493 "2013-05-12T21:20:34Z")
Since Bricker is fighting this so hard, I should mention that according to a random site I looked up on the intarnet box: > **[Finding the Right Black Powder For Fireworks](https://www.skylighter.com/blogs/fireworks-information/black-powder-for-fireworks)** > > Confused or having a hard time making sense of all the black powder grades? Well, here's how to find the "right" type black powder to use in your fireworks. > > The manufacturers classify Black Powder types and grain sizes by the numbers and letters... > [@fireworks website](#): > > The Manufacturers classify Black Powder types and grain sizes by the numbers and letters shown below. Most black powder sold in the US is either “sporting grade” (“G” black powders), or “blasting grade” (“A” black powders). Professional fireworks manufacturers prefer the “A” series black powders, but you are required to have an ATF license to buy them legally. However you don’t need an ATF license to purchase up to 50 lbs. of sporting grade (G) black powders, which are chemically identical. Since the composition of the two types of black powders is identical, you can, in fact, substitute G black powder for A black powder in your fireworks, if you understand the following: the black powder manufacturers created completely different grading schemes for each type of black powder (i.e. sporting vs. blasting powder). Sounds like taggants in firearm black powder might find their way into fireworks as well. But I’m not a fireworks or black powder gun guy. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/494 "2013-05-12T21:33:14Z")
Yeah, Bricker’s right. Elucid’s asking for a cite was just like people “just asking questions” about all the Jews who worked in the WTC calling in sick on 911. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/495 "2013-05-13T00:07:11Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Yeah, Bricker’s right. > > Elucid’s asking for a cite was just like people “just asking questions” about all the Jews who worked in the WTC calling in sick on 911. Doesn’t it seem a little heavy handed to insinuate that 'luci is equivalent to anti-Semite conspiracy theorists? Never mind that at least some fireworks uses the same formulation of black powder that firearms do, so Bricker is off base. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/496 "2013-05-13T00:14:08Z")
Well, to be ruthlessly fair, the stuff in bullets isn’t “black powder”. But it hardly matters since we were talking about bombs anyway. I regret that I shall have to denounce, renounce and condemn you. Tut-tut, my good man, not the done thing, don’t you know. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/497 "2013-05-13T00:17:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, to be ruthlessly fair, the stuff in bullets isn’t “black powder”. But it hardly matters since we were talking about bombs anyway. > > I regret that I shall have to denounce, renounce and condemn you. Tut-tut, my good man, not the done thing, don’t you know. I meant specifically black powder weapons, like the Civil War buffs use. I know that modern weapons use smokeless powder. I’ve seen enough reenactments to know that black powder produces so much smoke that it’s almost a defensive smokescreen. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/498 "2013-05-13T00:20:15Z")
I withdraw my renounce, denounce and condemn, with the hope that you have not suffered any permanent damage thereby. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/499 "2013-05-13T00:22:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I withdraw my renounce, denounce and condemn, with the hope that you have not suffered any permanent damage thereby. I can’t promise that I will walk on without a tear, but walk I shall. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626/500 "2013-05-13T00:31:34Z")
It may help to remember that the original impetus to gunpowder taggants was related entirely to their application as bomb material, as outlined in this article: [http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950502&slug=2118763](http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19950502&slug=2118763) **Tag Explosives To Trace Bombs? Nra, Others Blocked Research** > [@](#): > > Almost 20 years ago the government developed a way to mark explosives to help trace terrorist bombs. But Congress blocked the research, even after a test of the device helped catch a bomber in Baltimore. > > Lobbying by the explosives industry and the National Rifle Association, citing safety concerns, buried the idea… Why? Well what else but… > [@](#): > > …The NRA raised similar safety complaints about taggants in gunpowder, and also likened it to federal registration of firearms. The government wanted to mark the black powder used by owners of old-style muzzleloading guns because it is often used in pipe bombs. > > “The NRA was pretty vocal,” said Jim Pasco, a former BATF assistant director who is now executive director of the Fraternal Order of Police. “This would have been one tremendous leap forward, and it was just stopped cold.” > > A 1980 report by congressional investigators called taggants “useful law enforcement tools against terrorists,” but also urged more study to settle the safety questions. > > The report, by the Office of Technology Assessment, predicted the safety research could be completed in time to require the markers in explosives by 1984. > > Instead, Congress cut off all spending on the taggant program… I suggest that the political clout of the NRA is very much on display here. You may wish to lay the blame elsewhere, perhaps the League of Women Voters, or ACORN. Maybe CASA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-this-board-lean-democrat/656626.md?page=26)