# why does U.S spelling omit the 'u'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 30, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007 "2013-09-30T15:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/81 "2013-10-01T16:12:10Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Are they definitely wrong? They insist British style be used by everyone in the world for proper names in the UK itself, for the very reason that these things are _in_ the UK. But then they turn around and insist only British style be used for any proper names located _inside_ the US, because the Americans don’t know proper spelling. So yes, I say they are wrong. > > Again, these are only a small minority. I’m not dumping on Brits in general, most of whom I’ve found to be good people. Sorry - of course they’re wrong to insist that everyone, everywhere, uses their variation of spelling, but what I meant is: Are they actually wrong to spell it that way themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/82 "2013-10-01T16:14:30Z")
I would say they can spell it any way they want among themselves, but to repeat a previous example, if my name were Browne and some clowns insisted on Brown, I’d be shaking my head. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/83 "2013-10-01T16:16:01Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > As RickJay pointed out, because it’s a proper name. If the officials who named it had spelled it Purl Hahrber, that would be the correct spelling. The correct spelling (and pronuniciation, for that matter) of a proper name is determined by whoever named the person, place or thing, not by the whims of the general public. Place names are not the same the world over - The capital of Austria is Wien, not Vienna, for example. Why is this any different from thousands of other cases where the locals call it one thing, and other people call it something else? (I am earnestly prepared to be persuaded on this) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/84 "2013-10-01T16:21:34Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I would say they can spell it any way they want among themselves, but to repeat a previous example, if my name were Browne and some clowns insisted on Brown, I’d be shaking my head. I agree - I guess the Pearl Harbor thing is a confusing case where the proper name reads as though it isn’t a proper name - in many other cases - like the Bay of Naples - it’s a descriptive term as much as it is a name. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/85 "2013-10-01T16:21:39Z")
Wien is German, Vienna is the English spelling. But with harbor/harbour etc, you’re talking the same language, and local variations should be honored in the same language. We’ve had whole threads on that. Thais don’t say England, they say Angkrit. They don’t say United States, they say Saharat. The Germans don’t say The United States, they say Die Vereinigten Staaten. You can’t really compare across different languages. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/86 "2013-10-01T16:26:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Wien is German, Vienna is the English spelling. But with harbor/harbour etc, you’re talking the same language, and local variations should be honored in the same language. Should they? I’m not sure whether I agree they _are_ the same language, really. They are somewhat mutually intelligible, but then, so are Spanish and Italian, or the Scandinavian languages, or English and Scots. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/87 "2013-10-01T16:27:55Z")
If you don’t agree that Brits and Americans both speak English, then there’s not much more I can say. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/88 "2013-10-01T16:29:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > If you don’t agree that Brits and Americans both speak English, then there’s not much more I can say. Americans speak US English. I mean, if they were the same thing, this thread wouldn’t even exist. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/89 "2013-10-01T16:33:38Z")
I contend British English and American English are not separate languages, bad jokes aside. Therefore, I find it extremely annoying if not a wee bit arrogant when either side will not play ball with the other side’s proper-name spellings. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/90 "2013-10-01T16:39:29Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I contend British English and American English are not separate languages, bad jokes aside. Therefore, I find it extremely annoying if not a wee bit arrogant when either side will not play ball with the other side’s proper-name spellings. If the word “language” has a completely different meaning in British English than the word “language” has in American English, then they probably are separate languages. For some definition of “languages.” Not yours or mine, obviously. But Mangetout doesn’t seem to speak our language. His is mysterious to the outside ear. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/91 "2013-10-01T16:41:29Z")
Well, Board rules are English-only. So is he supposed to get with the program(me), or are we? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/92 "2013-10-01T16:50:42Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I contend British English and American English are not separate languages, bad jokes aside. I don’t actually disagree - they are of course diverging dialects (or dialect collections) of the same language - but utimately, diverging dialects become different languages. What interests me is where we draw the line. If its OK for different languages to spell each others’ places differently, why is it so wrong when it happens in different dialects - especially in cases like this, where Pearl Harbor is in fact, an actual harbour. > [@](#): > > Therefore, I find it extremely annoying if not a wee bit arrogant when either side will not play ball with the other side’s proper-name spellings. OK. Not that it’s an authority on the matter (if such things as authorities even exist for this), but when I was searching for other examples of this problem, I stumbled across the spelling section of the style guide for [The Economist](http://www.economist.com/style-guide/spellings), which says: > [@](#): > > Use British English rather than American English or any other kind. Sometimes, however, this injunction will clash with the rule that people and companies should be called what they want to be called, short of festooning themselves with titles. If it does, adopt American (or Canadian or other local) spelling when it is used in the name of an American (etc) company or private organisation (Alcan Aluminum, Carter Center, Pulverizing Services Inc, Travelers Insurance), but not when it is used for a place or government institution (Pearl Harbour, Department of Defence, Department of Labour). The principle behind this ruling is that placenames are habitually changed from foreign languages into English: Deutschland becomes Germany, München Munich, Torino Turin, etc. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/93 "2013-10-01T17:15:12Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > I think we’re mostly there with “thru”. Don’t traffic signs use this spelling? [Does a google [search](https://www.google.com/search?q=no+through+traffic+sign&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS509US510&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=audJUuDRHYfC2wXsxICQBg&sqi=2&ved=0CGoQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=979&dpr=1) ] Well, here it seems about even, but IME they mostly use “thru”. Also, with “drive thru.” ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/94 "2013-10-01T23:22:19Z")
This thread has gone on so many tangents that I’m just going to respond without quoting: I’m from all over the SE US. “Poor” probably shouldn’t rhyme with “pore” and “pour”, but IME and usage it usually does. That’s probably mostly laziness. Re: “Pourhouse”: puns don’t always have to be perfect homonyms; there’s some leeway with jokes (and songs and poems). That said, to my mind, neither pronunciation of “poor” rhymes with “color”, which I pronounce “cul-er”. And don’t think that I’m offering myself up as the authority of pronunciation, I’m just giving my perspective as a southerner. I thought it was funny when my cousin from Delaware pronounced my brother Ben’s name like “behn”. I pronounce it the same way I pronounce “bin”. Later I realized that she was probably right, since “e” is pronounced like an “e”, not an “i”. I don’t pronounce “bed” the same way I pronounce “bid”, so I don’t know why we (and pretty much everyone else) have always pronounced my brother’s name like “bin”. \>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\> It kinda annoyed me when I saw “New York” listed as “Nueva York”. It’s a proper name! We don’t refer to Puerto Rico and Costa Rica as “Rich Port” and “Rich Coast”. Please take this as more of an observation than an argument. I think that **Mangetout’s** points are quite valid. \>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\>\> As a teacher, if I had a student that just moved from England or Canada I would cut him a lot of slack on spelling tests that included words like “color” or “realize”. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/95 "2013-10-01T23:23:10Z")
> [@Cheryl44](#): > > When will you learn to use the shift key? I think he’s French and the académie française has banned the shift key for it’s insufficient Frenchness. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/96 "2013-10-01T23:38:25Z")
I just talked to may parents about this thread. I think I gave them some food for thought about my brother’s name. I asked how they would describe someone with no money and my dad said “pew-r” (“poor”) while my mom said “pore”. BTW, about the color gray/grey: To me both spellings are correct. I couldn’t even tell you which was the British spelling and which is the American spelling, or if that’s even the case. Neither spelling looks “wrong” to me; they are interchangeable. If I wrote a paragraph using that word 10 times I’ll probably spell it each way 5 times each. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/97 "2013-10-02T00:25:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Same here, but we’re from the same accent region. I vacillate on the pronunciation of “poor.” Sometimes, it rhymes with “lore.” Sometimes with “lure.” In fact, [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poor?s=t) lists only one pronunciation, and it’s not the one that is homophonous with “pour.” Ok, for mine there is no difference in the pronunciation of Poor, Pore, Pour, Paw. In Australia they are just all said the same. This is obviously where the accent bit kicks in over the spelling. On the other hand, we would pronounce 'Sure" the same as “Shore”, both of which would rhyme with all the Paws above, but “pure” is pronounced completely differently. More like Pew\_ah ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/98 "2013-10-02T01:31:15Z")
> [@Rucksinator](#): > > BTW, about the color gray/grey: To me both spellings are correct. I couldn’t even tell you which was the British spelling and which is the American spelling, or if that’s even the case. _Gray_ is the spelling preferred in the US (although _grey_ is acceptable). _Grey_ is used in other English speaking countries. However, the dog is a _greyhound_ even in the US. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/99 "2013-10-02T01:54:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Place names are not the same the world over - The capital of Austria is Wien, not Vienna, for example. Why is this any different from thousands of other cases where the locals call it one thing, and other people call it something else? > > (I am earnestly prepared to be persuaded on this) Because Austrians do not speak English. They speak German. To go from one language to another, it’s understandable that names will change to facilitate pronounciation and understanding. You also have cases where different languages refer to the same place with legitimately different words; Greeks do not call their country Greece, to use an obvious example. “Greece” is a Latin-originated term. In the case of “Pearl Harbor,” however, Americans, Canadians and Britons are all writing in the same language, so there really isn’t any excuse. Changing the spelling of a proper name is vaguely insulting. Nobody would tell Oscar Wilde he misspelled the title of The Picture of Dorian Gray, would they? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007/100 "2013-10-02T07:16:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Because Austrians do not speak English. They speak German. To go from one language to another, it’s understandable that names will change to facilitate pronounciation and understanding. You also have cases where different languages refer to the same place with legitimately different words; Greeks do not call their country Greece, to use an obvious example. “Greece” is a Latin-originated term. > > In the case of “Pearl Harbor,” however, Americans, Canadians and Britons are all writing in the same language, so there really isn’t any excuse. I disagree that it’s exactly the same language (or nobody would be desiring to change any spelling) - this is as much an international question as it is an interlingual one anyway - this is something that happens across borders, not just languages. > [@](#): > > Changing the spelling of a proper name is vaguely insulting. Right, but ‘Pearl Harbor’ is not a proper name in the same way as, say, Jim Jenkins. It’s a name, but it also contains a relevant, common descriptive term. > [@](#): > > Nobody would tell Oscar Wilde he misspelled the title of The Picture of Dorian Gray, would they? This analogy doesn’t work at all, because: [ul] [li]‘Dorian Gray’ is just the name of the character - it conveys no descriptive meaning - He is not called Dorian Gray because he is a neutral ashen colour - He is not _Monochrome Dorian_.[/li][li]When the book _The Picture Of Dorian Gray_ is translated into other languages (not just other dialects), the name stays the same (in French, for example, it’s _[Le Portrait de Dorian Gray](http://www.amazon.com/Portrait-Dorian-French-Edition-ebook/dp/B0012UQWD6)_, not _Le Portrait de Dorian **Gris** _). So it’s not analogous to place names that you’re saying are OK to change in different languages, but not in different dialects.[/li][li]Oscar Wilde was Irish (of Anglo-Irish descent), so when he coined the name ‘Dorian Gray’, it was already not the right spelling of the colour grey for the context.[/li][/ul] The reason British writers want to write ‘Pearl Harbour’ is not just because they are being contrary - it’s because _the place is a harbour_ - it is a place where boats go. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-u-s-spelling-omit-the-u/670007.md?page=6)