# Why does we say: Northwest vs. Westnorth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318 "2004-07-15T20:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FX45\_4Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4bbf92/32.png) [@FX45\_4Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FX45_4Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/1 "2004-07-15T20:41:54Z")
I’ve done a little searching, and am not able to readily find why we say: Northwest, and Southeast. (vs. Westnorth,or Eastsouth). Any of you dopers know? Thanks. p.s. I did discover that the Chinese have (had once) N S inverted and say it the ‘other way” cite: [Chinese Map Convention for Directions](http://www.chinapage.com/map/ancient/direction.html) Here are a few examples: Northwest Airlines changes its name in Chinese as “Westnorth Airline” !!! Southeast Asia in Chinese is “Eastsouth Asia.” Northeast Provinces (Manchuria) are the “Eastnorth Provinces.” ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/2 "2004-07-15T23:58:05Z")
I’d guess it was a result of custom. Once the convention was established that north appeared at the top of maps (see previous details [here](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_159.html)), then north became the dominant direction and was mentioned first in compound phrases such as north-east and north-west. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/3 "2004-07-16T00:48:19Z")
North and South always trump East and West. Probably because of North being at the top and South at the bottom of maps (per **Cunctator** ’s post). ---
**Author:** ![adirondack\_mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/4 "2004-07-16T01:58:47Z")
Pretty much because we orient our maps with north at the top - Notice the north arrow. WAG - because compass needles point north or south (at least for the time being) and since we live closer to the N pole than the other pole it just makes life a little easier. Unless of course you’re a kiwi or aussie or whatever godforsaken souls live down there. 🙂 The other [points of the compass](http://www.boatsafe.com/kids/082000.htm) don’t always begin with north or south. ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/5 "2004-07-16T05:00:34Z")
Although North west,North east, South east,South west are favored the we do use East south east,and west south west. Also east north east and West north west when refering to the directions of the compass nearer to east and west. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/6 "2004-07-16T06:13:52Z")
I didn’t look for sites on this but I suspect the importance of north predates the compass, at least in Europe. There is a distinctive constellation, Ursa Major, that is prominent in the north sky. To a close observer, such as those who want to navigate, it becomes obvious after a period of observation that it rotates around a fixed point in the sky. At least the point is fixed in terms of the time of a human life. None of the other directions in the northern hemisphere are marked by so clear an indicator. Isaac Asimov relates that in the Odyssey, Odysseus is told to keep the Wain (Big Dipper, Ursa Major) on his left in order to go east toward Greece. So north was primary as it is clearly marked and the north-south line then became the reference. ---
**Author:** ![FX45\_4Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4bbf92/32.png) [@FX45\_4Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FX45_4Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/7 "2004-07-16T14:28:18Z")
Specifically if we are heading 45 degrees on the compass, why do we say northeast? I understand if we are heading 70 degrees (closer to east that North) we say East-Northeast. I assumed European influence had to do with it, but I wanted “factual” answers like Mr. ABC wrote a book in 1482 defining proper compass direction names, it was generally approved / accepted. In 1510 was approved by King DEF, the Catholic Church, and the teeming millions. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/8 "2004-07-16T15:52:30Z")
Cultural points aside, the order we use is MUCH easier to pronounce. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/9 "2004-07-16T18:42:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I assumed European influence had to do with it, but I wanted “factual” answers like Mr. ABC wrote a book in 1482 defining proper compass direction names, it was generally approved / accepted. In 1510 was approved by King DEF, the Catholic Church, and the teeming millions. How does it feel to want? I’m afraid that you may have to be satisfied with **Cunctator** ’s answer (which _is_ “factual,” if speculative). In English, the usage has _always_ been Northeast and not Eastnorth. Perusing the **OED** , we find etymologies extending back into Friesian, Dutch, and Middle Low German using those constructions, with cognates in several of the Romance languages and no reference (in English history) to any Eastnorth or Westsouth constructions. There were a few maps from ancient times that used East as the primary direction (and we still claim to “orient” our maps when, in fact, we are “boreasting” them). However, not all ancient maps faced East and the shift from East to North occurred at a time when even East was merely a convention, not a law. I suspect that one will not find any actual declarations that one usage or another should be preferred. ---
**Author:** ![FX45\_4Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4bbf92/32.png) [@FX45\_4Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FX45_4Ever)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-we-say-northwest-vs-westnorth/255318/10 "2004-07-16T20:02:36Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > How does it feel to want? > > I’m afraid that you may have to be satisfied with **Cunctator** ’s answer (which _is_ “factual,” if speculative). I considered **Cunctator** ’s answer to be a WAG… ('cause he did actually start with “I’d guess…”) In the future, I’ll refrain from saying “want” if you refrain from being sarcastic without supplying a wink. 😛 Thanks for your anwers.