# Why doesn’t Northern Ireland have a flag? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719 "2021-07-17T16:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/1 "2021-07-17T16:00:31Z")
England, Wales, Scotland, and the Isle of Man all have their own flags but it seems that Northern Ireland uses the Union Flag. Is there a reason for this or is it a point of contention for some? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/3 "2021-07-17T16:05:08Z")
This 5-minute video by CGP Grey directly answers your question. [“No Flag Northern Ireland”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaQwC5QbLeQ). Short answer, yes, it’s a huge point of contention. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/4 "2021-07-17T18:40:21Z")
I suppose the answer lies in history: Northern Ireland had limited home rule, with its own Parliament and government, until 1973, when it was abolished and the responsibilities for running Northern Ireland were assumed by Westminster directly. This pre-1973 regime had an official Northern Irish flag, which was abolished together with it. When Northern Ireland got autonomy back in 1998, in the form of the current “devolution” regime, the flag wasn’t reinstated (nor was a new one designed). I suppose that was because the 1998 regime was the result of a carefully calibrated (and painfully achieved) compromise, and the British government didn’t want to risk upsetting that compromise by introducing a symbol that could become controversial. In sports, however, where Northern Ireland is separately represented (which is a complicated matter in itself - in football it plays on its own, in the Olympics it’s part of the British team, in Rugby it’s part of the Irish team), the pre-1973 flag is widely used as a symbol for the Northern Irish team. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/5 "2021-07-18T21:17:45Z")
Why is it not [this flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Saltire#/media/File:Saint_Patrick's_Saltire.svg) as represented on the [Union Jack](https://www.royal.uk/union-jack)? > The Union Flag, or Union Jack, is the national flag of the United Kingdom. > It is so called because it combines the crosses of the three countries united under one Sovereign - the kingdoms of England and Wales, of Scotland and of Ireland (although since 1921 only Northern Ireland has been part of the United Kingdom). > The flag consists of three heraldic crosses. > _snip_ > The cross saltire of St Patrick, patron saint of Ireland, is a diagonal red cross on a white ground. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/6 "2021-07-18T21:31:54Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Is there a reason for this or is it a point of contention for some? It is [very contentious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAvxqGnVO2w). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/7 "2021-07-18T23:38:00Z")
It’s not at all clear that the « Cross of St Patrick » really had any significance as a flag in Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/8 "2021-07-19T08:22:35Z")
Yes, which why why the earlier Union flag for a prior Union used the 1707-1801 flag defaced with an Irish harp. > **[Flags of the English Interregnum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_English_Interregnum#/media/File:Flag_of_the_Commonwealth_(1658-1660).svg)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > There were a variety of flags flown by ships of the Commonwealth during the Interregnum of 1649–1660. > At sea, royalist ships continued to fly the Union Jack of 1606, while on 22 February 1649 the Council of State decided to send the parliamentary navy an order (signed by Oliver Cromwell on 23 February) that "the ships at sea in service of the State shall onely beare the red Crosse in a white flag" (viz., the flag of England). > On 5 March 1649 t... ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/9 "2021-07-19T09:18:11Z")
Is the harp a republican symbol? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/10 "2021-07-19T09:32:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is the harp a republican symbol?   Not necessarily. The [Royal Ulster Constabulary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ulster_Constabulary), the worst enemy of the IRA, used a harp symbol. [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Badge_of_the_Royal_Ulster_Constabulary.png/140px-Badge_of_the_Royal_Ulster_Constabulary.png) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Badge_of_the_Royal_Ulster_Constabulary.png/140px-Badge_of_the_Royal_Ulster_Constabulary.png) But a Cross of St Patrick would have had NI Protestants foaming at mouth. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/11 "2021-07-19T09:42:53Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > > Is there a reason for this or is it a point of contention for some? > > It is [very contentious](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAvxqGnVO2w). I adore one of the comments: > Loyalists are strange. We put a McDonalds flag up at the entrance of our estate… So they put up a Burger King one. There’s even a Dope-like explanation as the first reply: > the north Antrim Scot-Irish MacDonald clan fought against the plantation people, maybe someone knew their medieval history and got offended. And the author then confirms they do live in north Antrim. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/12 "2021-07-19T17:46:01Z")
I don’t think the order is backwards but: the Nationalists started to use Palestine symbolism as a solidarity thing. The Unionists then adopted Israel symbols in response. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/13 "2021-10-09T14:29:58Z")
Well until 1973, the Northern Island had its own democratically elected government … so it was like a state (of USA, Australia, a province of Canada, a country of the UK ) … .So there is a royal warrant assigning the Ulster Banner … but in 1973 it went back to being a territory under administration, so the entity the royal warrant gave the flag to no longer existed, it became a territory of the UK and so the union jack is the only known flag approved. In 1998 they got autonomy back and the Northern Island Assembly has a flag, but its not the flag of Northern Ireland, nothing unique assigned yet. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/14 "2021-10-09T15:40:49Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > In 1998 they got autonomy back and the Northern Island Assembly has a flag, but its not the flag of Northern Ireland, nothing unique assigned yet. And no wonder no one uses the N Irish assembly flag….it looks like something your weed dealer might make. > **[File:Flag of Northern Ireland Assembly.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Northern_Ireland_Assembly.svg)** ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/15 "2021-10-09T15:43:32Z")
As an aside, maybe @UDS (@UDS1 ?) will be able to clarify, but I think the reason the Red Hand of Ulster isn’t used is since it’s become a Unionist symbol the last 120 years. Otherwise, it’s an awesome symbol. > **[File:RedHandOfUlster DexterHand.png](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RedHandOfUlster_DexterHand.png)** ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/16 "2021-10-14T01:29:23Z")
Strictly speaking, SFAIK, this isn’t an official Northern Ireland Assembly Flag. AIUI, the Assembly has adopted a badge or logo; it’s six sprigs of flax flower. It has the same status in relation to the NI Assembly as, say, the crowned portcullis badge has for the UK Parliament, or the arms of Canada mounted on the crossed maces has for the Canadian Parliament. Other parliaments don’t put their badges on a banner and use that as a flag but, such is the sensitivity around flags in NI, it has been judged wise for the Assembly to do this, and to use it as much as possible in preference to flags that might be more politically loaded or divisive. So, yes, the overriding concern was to employ symbols that (a) had some arguable significance for Northern Ireland, but (b) had not hitherto been used in a way associated with one or other community (or even both communities - the red hand was ruled out both because it had been employed by loyalist movements and because it is the historic heraldic symbol of the 9-county province of Ulster, part of which lies in the Republic). The flax flower refer to the linen industry, historically significant in Northern Ireland, and the six sprigs refer to the historic six counties of Northern Ireland (“historic” because they no longer function as units of local government). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/17 "2021-10-14T18:48:17Z")
> [@UDS1](#): > > the red hand was ruled out both because it had been employed by loyalist movements… Though it is also used by groups that are distinctly [not loyalist](https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/gaelic-games/58531189). ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/18 "2021-10-14T19:03:11Z")
Just FYI, as an American, I can’t make heads or tails of that headline. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/19 "2021-10-15T07:27:10Z")
It’s a report on this year’s All Ireland Senior Football Final, the game that decides the champions in Gaelic Football, a sport whose nearest cousin is Australian Rules Football though it shares an organisational structure and many rules with hurling. The first number in each pair of numbers is the number of goals scored, worth 3 points. The second number is single points scored, so Tyrone won by 5 points. “See off” is an irritating phrase used by sports journalists to mean “beat”. The sport at this level is played by teams representing the old 32 counties of Ireland. Tyrone is in Northern Ireland, though the Ulster championship they won earlier in the year includes 3 counties from the Republic of Ireland. Tyrone, or Tir Eoghain use the red hand in their badge. This year everyone thought the final would be between Dublin and Kerry. When Mayo and Tyrone won the semi-finals people thought Mayo would be able to end their atrocious run of final defeats, 10 in 70 years including many in the last 20 years. But they lost again. There are other sports organised on an all Ireland basis, such as rugby and golf. Association football split at the time of partition. BTW, Gaelic football and hurling are amateur sports but in a normal year there would be 82 000 people at the respective finals and some earlier games. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/20 "2021-10-15T13:28:38Z")
> [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](#): > > The first number in each pair of numbers is the number of goals scored, worth 3 points. The second number is single points scored, so Tyrone won by 5 points. So you have to do math when looking at the scoreboard to discern who won? I’m glad our American football doesn’t use that system as you can score 1,2,3,or 6 points depending on the play. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719/21 "2021-10-15T16:43:58Z")
Yes. Rugby and possibly American football displayed the score like this for a time during the 19th century, I don’t know why Gaelic sports continued. On TV coverage they also show the total points for each team towards the end of the game, but I suspect there are traditionalists enraged by this. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesn-t-northern-ireland-have-a-flag/946719.md?page=2)