# Why doesn't ET call us? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634 "2008-11-14T00:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/81 "2008-11-15T00:29:41Z")
Virtual reality coupled with perfect drugs. I think we are much closer to having a ‘Matrix’ level of virtual reality than we are to interstellar travel on any meaningful scale. What would happen to a civilisation where every member could step through a portal into their own perfect fantasy world and drugs to create endless bliss? Probably not gonna be doing much exploring anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/82 "2008-11-15T00:49:03Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > Virtual reality coupled with perfect drugs. > > I think we are much closer to having a ‘Matrix’ level of virtual reality than we are to interstellar travel on any meaningful scale. > > What would happen to a civilisation where every member could step through a portal into their own perfect fantasy world and drugs to create endless bliss? Probably not gonna be doing much exploring anymore. Not all would do this. Someone still has to provide food, water, electricity, and drugs. Nor do I expect that people inclined to exploration would be interested in a perfect fantasy world. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/83 "2008-11-15T00:49:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The strongest argument I’ve seen for panspermia lately is the discovery of bacteria living in the highest reaches of the Earth’s atmosphere. Since it’s clearly impossible for the bacteria to have made it all the way up there from the ground, the idea goes, they must clearly have originated from some other planet, instead. And, they do make it up there from the ground, and off into space, and our planet itself is now seeding the galaxy, just as our planet was seeded. [Electromagnetic Space Travel for Bugs?](http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9601) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/84 "2008-11-15T01:03:19Z")
I would find it very lonely to think we’re a fluke. Or, as submitted upthread, there is intelligent life out there, but they are so widely different from us they don’t recognize us as intelligent life either. The universe could be teeming with life, maybe a lot of it intelligent, but all we see is a bunch of mold or a rock…if we can even see it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/85 "2008-11-15T01:12:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The strongest argument I’ve seen for panspermia lately is the discovery of bacteria living in the highest reaches of the Earth’s atmosphere. Since it’s clearly impossible for the bacteria to have made it all the way up there from the ground, the idea goes, they must clearly have originated from some other planet, instead. Are you being facetious? I’ve seen much stronger arguments. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/86 "2008-11-15T01:18:10Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What’s the difference between a dwarf galaxy and a ‘real’ galaxy? Actually the term “dwarf galaxy” is politically incorrect. It’s now considered proper to use the term “little galaxy”. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/87 "2008-11-15T04:45:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Right, that’s the most obvious difference. Not to speak on behalf of **RTFirefly** , but I think the point was if you’re a galaxy, you’re a galaxy, big or dwarf. A star is a star, big or dwarf. If you’re a galaxy, you’re not a globular cluster, or simply a “formation.” There must be a cut-off between “some stars” and “a galaxy.” When is a planet not a planet? When it’s a [dwarf planet.](http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/10/why-pluto-is-no-longer-a-planet/) Excuse me, “little” planet. Apparently, size does matter. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/88 "2008-11-15T04:52:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Are you being facetious? I’ve seen much stronger arguments. I’m not being facetious; that’s literally the strongest argument I’ve seen for panspermia. Do you have anything better? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/89 "2008-11-15T05:19:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m not being facetious; that’s literally the strongest argument I’ve seen for panspermia. Do you have anything better? I guess the strength of most arguments is subjective, but to me, resuscitating bacteria that has been in space is more convincing. I’m sure you’ve heard the story that someone accidentally sneezed in a camera that was to be left on the moon. > [@](#): > > The 50-100 [_Streptococcus mitis_] organisms survived launch, space vacuum, 3 years of radiation exposure, deep-freeze at an average temperature of only 20 degrees above absolute zero, and no nutrient, water or energy source. [More here](http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast01sep98_1.htm) ([NASA.gov](http://NASA.gov)), including a little bit about possible microfossils found in meteorites that originated on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/90 "2008-11-15T05:38:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, but you said “ecosystem-destroying”, not “biosphere-destroying”. It doesn’t take much to destroy an ecosystem, and it happens all the time. Sorry. I should have said ‘biosphere destroying’. > [@cmosdos](#): > > Quite possible, yes. But there are 70 sextillion stars (70_10^22) in the visible universe. So if Earth is one in a quadrillion (10^15), that means there are 70_10^7 (700 million!) others just like us. Yes, but if you assume that it would have taken a few billion years for life to start to develop, and another few billion for it to evolve, then that sphere gets a lot smaller. Then there’s the time it would take for the radio signals from that new civilization to reach us, making the sphere smaller still. So yes, while even minute probabilities turn into near certainties at large enough numbers, I’m not sure the number of stars that are within our possible “ET-Sphere” is so great that it’s totally improbable that we are the only ones around. Here’s another way in which we could have ‘won the lottery’ - evolution could be, in general, a much slower process than it was on Earth. It could be that we had just right amount of radiation, and just the right environment, and just the right kinds of stimuli in the evolving planet to optimize the path to Homo Sapiens. It could be that there are billions of planets with life in various stages of evolution, but we just won the race. Anyway, if we do detect life on other planets in our lifetime, I’m going to guess that it will be from direct observation. I expect in my lifetime to see orbiting telescopes and arrays large enough that we will directly image surface features on planets around our nearest stars, down to the resolution where we could at least see large area of vegetation like forests and grasslands and such. Very soon we’ll be able to start actually looking for biomarkers in their atmospheres. That’s where I think we’re going to find the first confirmation of extra-terrestrial life. But it won’t be ET. More likely to be moss or algae or land vegetation. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/91 "2008-11-15T14:54:59Z")
A few points all pertinant I hope but in random order. E.T. could well have been signaling us for eons but we haven’t been listening in on the multiple dimension/relativistic Quantum channel. Radio Waves? Dont make me laugh, what sort of a civilisation would use R.F. for communication? On the subject of Earth signals going into space over a certain distance they just become noise. FTL travel will not become possible in the same way that the original motor car has evolved year by year into a faster and more sophisticated version but by a completely new break through as in the difference between piston aircraft and jets. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/92 "2008-11-15T20:30:55Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > FTL travel will not become possible in the same way that the original motor car has evolved year by year into a faster and more sophisticated version but by a completely new break through as in the difference between piston aircraft and jets. I’m not holding out much hope for FTL travel, per se, but we may find a form of instantaneous data transmission, and transmit copies of our future selves as data. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/93 "2008-11-15T20:48:51Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m not holding out much hope for FTL travel, per se, but we may find a form of instantaneous data transmission, and transmit copies of our future selves as data. What makes you believe that? Or that we will ever have FTL travel? Everything we know about physics today says that neither will happen. And if you think the Fermi Paradox is difficult to resolve, wait until you try to resolve the idea that instantaneous travel is possible with the concept that the universe may be infinite in size, or nearly so. It’s like the Fermi Paradox taken to the nth power. Basically, the only thing that makes the Fermi paradox resolvable while still accepting that there may be life elsewhere is the fact that we are stuck in a very small sphere of possible interaction with other life forms. If instantaneous travel were possible, any possibility other than zero converges to near certainty. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/94 "2008-11-15T21:06:42Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What makes you believe that? Or that we will ever have FTL travel? Everything we know about physics today says that neither will happen. I’m not expecting FTL travel in my lifetime, or even my grandkids’ lifetimes, but it’s hard for me to accept that, if humans last long enough, it won’t eventually happen. It wasn’t that long ago that everything we knew about physics said that the thought of going to the moon was the height of absurdity --not because the journey was too long or treacherous, but because it was thought to be the size of a dinner plate. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/95 "2008-11-15T21:18:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Since it’s clearly impossible for the bacteria to have made it all the way up there from the ground… You’ll have to explain to me why that’s “clearly impossible” as opposed to “seemingly impossible.” ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/96 "2008-11-15T21:22:26Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > **Which one of _you_ wants to be the first to leave Earth forever?** I sure as hell don’t. A few hundred years ago, moving from Europe to the New World was basically leaving your world behind forever – if anything, the break was more severe (less communication and more danger). Millions of people were willing to take the plunge. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/97 "2008-11-15T21:34:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What makes you believe that? Or that we will ever have FTL travel? I didn’t say FTL “travel.” I said “instantaneous communication.” That’s far-fetched too, I admit. But, if you google up quantum entanglement and instantaneous communication, there is some muted grumbling about it. I sure don’t pretend to understand it, but if we can conceive of it today, I wonder what we’ll be able to achieve 10,000 years from now? Maybe the human consciousness exists sort of like a computer that can transmit itself to another star and be reconstructed, just like you sending me a jpeg, which really isn’t a picture, over the internet? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/98 "2008-11-15T21:49:38Z")
Quoth **Sam Stone** : > [@](#): > > Anyway, if we do detect life on other planets in our lifetime, I’m going to guess that it will be from direct observation. I expect in my lifetime to see orbiting telescopes and arrays large enough that we will directly image surface features on planets around our nearest stars, down to the resolution where we could at least see large area of vegetation like forests and grasslands and such. Very soon we’ll be able to start actually looking for biomarkers in their atmospheres. That’s where I think we’re going to find the first confirmation of extra-terrestrial life. But it won’t be ET. More likely to be moss or algae or land vegetation. We likely will have telescopes capable to do that in your lifetime (at least, if NASA’s funding situation doesn’t stay so dismal), but well before that, we’ll be able to detect oxygen in the atmosphere of other planets. You could argue that that’s indirect, but an oxygen atmosphere would be a lot more distinctive sign of life than a splotch of unusual color on a planetary surface, especially since we have no reason to expect any particular color for that splotch. Quoth **Q.E.D.** : > [@](#): > > You’ll have to explain to me why that’s “clearly impossible” as opposed to “seemingly impossible.” More precisely, Hoyle has to explain why it’s “clearly impossible”. It’s his argument, not mine. Personally, I think it’s pretty obvious that if you see bacteria in the high atmosphere, it’s much more reasonable to assume that they came from the planet 100 km away, rather than one 100 ly away. ---
**Author:** ![Squeaker\_Snow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Squeaker\_Snow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squeaker_Snow)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/99 "2008-11-16T21:52:32Z")
Because he’s just not that into you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634/100 "2008-11-16T22:38:32Z")
I can’t help but wonder about Berserkers. Thing is, we’re not only not detecting radio signals, we’re also not seeing the results of stellar engineering projects. Or maybe we are, but we just don’t understand that Quasars or whatever are stellar engineering. But let’s say that we loosen up some parameters on the Drake Equation, so that there are probably lots of intelligent species within a few hundred light years of us. Most of these species are fairly innocous folks that we could chat with. Except a few are radically xenophobic. And any time they notice signs of intelligent life on another planet they drop a dinosaur-killer asteroid on it. And so there are only three types of civilizations out there. Smart ones that know to shut up and not draw attention to themselves. Killers that destroy anyone that draws attention to themselves. These are also the first type, since the xenophobes don’t want to draw the attention of other xenophobes. And the naive ones who happily broadcast EM signals into space without a care in the world. This is why we don’t see any evidence of intelligent life. Intelligent species learn to shut up in a hurry, or someone shuts them up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-et-call-us/472634.md?page=6)