# Why doesn't H come before G in the alphabet? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 21, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656 "2014-07-21T12:00:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/1 "2014-07-21T12:00:18Z")
Yeah, I realize it goes way back, to the Phoenicians, or some other ancient script, but somewhere along the line it seems to me someone messed up. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/2 "2014-07-21T12:02:33Z")
Why would it? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/3 "2014-07-21T12:03:40Z")
Because they sort the alphabet in alphabetic order. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/4 "2014-07-21T12:08:06Z")
This makes my head hurt. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/5 "2014-07-21T12:25:21Z")
Same reason why Q and U aren’t next to each other. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/6 "2014-07-21T12:29:58Z")
Have you tried Wiki for an explanation – which is actually quite simple and straightforward: The letter 〈C〉 was the western form of the Greek gamma, but it was used for the sounds /ɡ/ and /k/ alike, possibly under the influence of Etruscan, which might have lacked any voiced plosives. Later, probably during the 3rd century BC, the letter 〈Z〉 — unneeded to write Latin properly — was replaced with the new letter 〈G〉, a 〈C〉 modified with a small vertical stroke, which took its place in the alphabet. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/7 "2014-07-21T12:40:08Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Yeah, I realize it goes way back, to the Phoenicians, or some other ancient script, but somewhere along the line it seems to me someone messed up. Je ne comprends pas. Expliquez moi, s’il vous plait. So totally confused by the OP, yet intrigued. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/8 "2014-07-21T13:08:23Z")
Here’s the history of the Latin alphabet. Tell us what you’re confused about. And here’s the history of the Semitic alphabet while we’re at it: > **[History of the Latin script](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Latin_alphabet)** > > The Latin script is the most widely used alphabetic writing system in the world. It is the standard script of the English language and is often referred to simply as "the alphabet" in English. It is a true alphabet which originated in the 7th century BC in Italy and has changed continually over the last 2,500 years. It has roots in the Semitic alphabet and its offshoot alphabets, the Phoenician, Greek, and Etruscan. The phonetic values of some letters changed, some letters were lost and gained Th... > **[History of the alphabet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_alphabet)** > > Egyptian hieroglyphs 32nd c. BCE > > Adlam (slight influence from Arabic) 1989 CE > Hangul 1443 CE > The history of the alphabet goes back to the consonantal writing system used for Semitic languages in the Levant in the 2nd millennium BCE. Most or nearly all alphabetic scripts used throughout the world today ultimately go back to this Semitic proto-alphabet. Its first origins can be traced back to a Proto-Sinaitic script developed in Ancient Egypt to represent the language of Semitic-speaking worker... ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/9 "2014-07-21T13:23:54Z")
A B C D E F H G I got a gal in Kalamazoo! ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/10 "2014-07-21T13:28:41Z")
Add me to the list of puzzled Dopers here. The order is essentially arbitrary, so what makes you think that anybody ‘messed up’? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/11 "2014-07-21T14:03:40Z")
Maybe he thinks it’s based on the periodic table. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/12 "2014-07-21T14:13:28Z")
[H.G. Wells] _Makes perfect sense to me._ [/H.G. Wells] Author, War of the Werds ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/13 "2014-07-21T14:14:23Z")
Let’s prioritize here. If someone were to give me the power to rearrange the alphabet, the first thing I would do is put U and I together… ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/14 "2014-07-21T14:39:13Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Why doesn’t H come before G in the alphabet? Are you confusing H (English aitch) with H (Greek eta)? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/15 "2014-07-21T15:14:40Z")
Are you saying it’s supposed to be Jesus G. Christ? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/16 "2014-07-21T15:16:46Z")
Why doesn’t **M** come first? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/17 "2014-07-21T15:20:05Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Why doesn’t **M** come first? Yeah! ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/18 "2014-07-21T15:29:08Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Are you confusing H (English aitch) with H (Greek eta)? And even then, gamma is listed first. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/19 "2014-07-21T15:45:26Z")
Since I think the factual aspects of this question have been answered, let’s move this over to IMHO. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656/20 "2014-07-21T18:03:26Z")
Let me tell you a little story. Once upon a time, a long time ago, several of the letters were resting after a hard day’s work. Now there weren’t as many letters then as there are now, because this was a very long time ago. H, who was a tough, strong worker, was looking at J, who was as lovely back then as she is now. H was entranced by J, so he invited her to go for a walk along the stream. Well, as time went on, H and J fell in love with each other, and eventually got married. A was the best man, and Z was the maid of honor. After H and J had been married for a couple years, they had a boy. And they named him I. And now you know. . . the REST of the story. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-h-come-before-g-in-the-alphabet/693656.md?page=2)