# Why doesn't SkyNet…? (TERMINATOR QUESTION) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 30, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143 "2014-01-30T18:25:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/21 "2014-01-31T17:17:27Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Skynet thinks like a machine. If it calculates that sending three Terminators to specific points in the past will eliminate John Conner’s existence, it will send back precisely three Terminators. I’m not sure this is compatible with the same Skynet that decided to nuke the world and enslave/exterminate humans out of mere self-preservation. From what we know of Skynet’s actions in the future, it’s very much a believer in overkill, as often and as early as feasible. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/22 "2014-01-31T17:37:42Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > which brings another point - what is skynet? It’s software. In cyberspace. -seriously, that line took me right out of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/23 "2014-01-31T23:49:57Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > The Resistance broke into the time machine lab seconds after the first Arnie Terminator and the T-1000 were sent back. They sent Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed Arnie and then smashed the time machine. > [@Miller](#): > > The second movie doesn’t mess with the facts established in the first film at all - it just reveals that the Terminator in the first film, was SkyNet’s _second_ attempt at killing John Connor. The first thing SkyNet did was send its most advanced Terminator after a young John Connor. When that didn’t work (as demonstrated by the fact that Connor’s forces were still kicking SkyNet’s ass) it sent one of it’s regular model Terminators back even further, to kill John Connor’s mom. That’s not really consistent with the first movie. Reese says, of the Terminator > [@](#): > > The 600 series had rubber skin. We spotted them easy, but these are new. They look human… sweat, bad breath, everything. Very hard to spot. I had to wait till he moved on you before I could zero him. That is not consistent with the idea that there are more advanced super-shapechangery models out there. It’s also not consistent with the idea that they’d managed to capture one of the Arnie models and reprogram it. Then > [@](#): > > The Terminator had already gone through. Connor sent me to intercept and they blew the whole place. Not “Terminators” had already gone through, not sent “us” to intercept. And if the resistance knows about all the terminators sent back, and send back their protectors all at once, why does Reese not bother to mention that to Sarah? “Oh, yeah, and when John’s like 14, we’re going to send another one back to help you guys, and he’ll look just like this one. Don’t freak out when you see him! And then again a bit later.” And, when asked how he’ll get home > [@](#): > > I can’t. Nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It’s just him - and me. The sequels are fun, but they’re really not consistent with the facts established in the first movie. It’s pretty hard to write airtight time travel sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/24 "2014-02-01T00:16:28Z")
Well, we can fanwank that Kyle _believed_ time travel was unique to him and the first Terminator, since that’s what future John Connor told him, because future John Connor knew that Kyle wasn’t going to survive (or, perhaps more simply, future John Connor told Kyle what Sarah Connor told John what Kyle told her…) ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/25 "2014-02-01T01:14:56Z")
So, in that fanwank, John Connor knows that there were multiple threats going back, and knows when they’re going back, since he sends others to intercept them, but when he sends Reese to save him from the first one, he doesn’t bother to tell him to warn his mother and self about the others? Guy’s got a death wish. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/26 "2014-02-01T03:42:43Z")
Well, he _did_ tell Sarah to go easy on her kid if when he’s eight, he accidentally sets fire to the living room rug. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/27 "2014-02-01T04:09:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Of course, it doesn’t make sense for Skynet at that point to be hatching elaborate schemes to get John Connor. From the description in the first movie, Connor won’t ping Skynet’s radar until the humans start achieving victories under his leadership and the time-travel plan only gets put in motion after Skynet is defeated. > > The problem is the implied communication between the time-travelling terminators (sent to kill John Connor) and the WW3-starting Skynet, when these are effectively a decade or more apart. There’s no reason or justification for Skynet in 2018 (the timeframe of _Salvation_ and 14 years before Connor’s eventual death as cited in the third film) to be chasing Connor specifically. It kinda smacks of 1984 - Skynet is trying to kill John Connor, therefore Skynet was _always_ trying to kill John Connor. > > Put simply, Connor has not yet _earned_ the specific attention of Skynet, let alone bizarrely complex plans involving cyborgs with human hearts and whatnot. Skynet of 2018 learns of John Connor because the Terminatrix from T3 (who knew JC was her Primary Target) activated the very first T1 units. She bootstraps Skynet in such a way that they might be losing in the past but they are certainly winning in the future. For example: T1: the most advanced Terminator to date is pretty simple. He speaks mostly from a list and is very linear in his actions. He is destroyed by a hydraulic press. T2: the most advanced Terminator is liquid metal, can turn into almost anything and effortlessly passes for human, even to the point of emoting (which was followed up in T:SCC with Shirley Manson’s T-1001 which was capable of expressing regret and frustration- “I’m sorry I piss you off… the feeling’s mutual.” STAB). This Terminator survives an incredible amount of ordnance thrown at it and ultimately only perishes because it was completely immersed in molten metal. T3: the most advanced Terminator has the strength of the endoskeleton combined with the disguise and armor of the liquid metal AND packs a whole bunch of advanced weaponry from the future. She is also an expert at deception (to the point of infiltrating a secure military site with ease) and she is the only Terminator thus far to actually accomplish part of her mission (killing JC’s lieutenants). Again, a small arsenal is dropped on her but it ultimately takes a small nuclear bomb stuffed right in her mouth to stop her. T4 didn’t show us a more advanced Terminator but did show us that the Terminators could wirelessly data-link which is an ability they never had before. Skynet as a whole is now capable of running sophisticated deception operations and their machinery packs a huge punch- see for example the huge HK which separates into a Harvester, two bikes and two smaller HK’s. Skynet is everywhere and the Resistance can hardly move without finding one or several Terminators on their jock at all times. It’s also worth noting that Skynet has learned from previous mistakes. When the experimental T-RIP is completely immersed in molten metal it slows him down for about thirty seconds. Skynet is winning. Going back further into the past doesn’t help them at all. Going further into the future made them nearly unstoppable and eventually succeeded in killing John Connor due to his own sentimentality. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/28 "2014-02-01T05:08:44Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > That is not consistent with the idea that there are more advanced super-shapechangery models out there. I read the novelization back around the time the movie came out, and I think they mention that the T-1000 was a prototype that hadn’t been put into action yet, but that Skynet sent back in time out of desperation. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/29 "2014-02-01T12:23:47Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I think a lot of the questions about Skynet can be answered by remembering that Skynet is a _machine_. > > (Yes. “It’s only a movie.” But we’re talking in-universe questions). > > Skynet thinks like a machine. If it calculates that sending three Terminators to specific points in the past will eliminate John Conner’s existence, it will send back precisely three Terminators. > > Also, Skynet’s principle motive is to remain in existence. Anything which causes a threat to its current and future existence is unacceptable. Why not send back dozens of Terminators – because the more Terminators you send to wander around in the past, the more unforeseen factors arise which may result in Skynet’s non-existence. Dialogue in the first Terminator movie from Reese explicitly establishes that Skynet was AFRAID of using the time machine and messing up its own existence. Only once it was already defeated did it use the time machine as a absolute last ditch effort(because it no longer mattered whether it erased itself or not). Skynet was unsure and afraid of mucking up the timeline, turns out it created itself and its nemesis 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/30 "2014-02-01T16:26:20Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Here’s a mindfuck for you: we know that in the future Skynet exists, and John Connor exists, and this loop had to have begun at some point, so there must be a timeline where Skynet is created without the remains of AT, and where John Connor is born without Kyle Reese, meaning that the John Connor who sends Kyle Reese back _cannot be Kyle Reese’s son_. So, who the hell is that in T2?! It’s not hard to imagine a sequence of time-travel events that leads to this kind of thing, oddly enough. It does require some probability-stretching coincidences, though. First, the technology for skynet gets invented the normal way, much farther into the future. At some point, time travel is invented/discovered, and they send the tech back into the late 80’s or 90’s, which THEN leads to SkyNet or something like it. Whether SkyNet existed in the “original future” isn’t important. I’m going to have problems with verb tenses, but assume there’s a sequence of timelines. Once a timeline is changed by going back in time, that creates a new timeline. What happens to the old timeline past the point of the time-travel insertion is unimportant here. So anyway, in timeline 1 (TL1) the tech is created and the first time-travel event happens, creating TL2. (Yeah, there are problems with this, but hey it’s fiction, right?) In TL2, tech advances much faster due to the tech being inserted. Assume it’s inserted later than Arnie’s insertion. This causes some sort of SkyNet, which some hero (not JC) leads the rebellion for. SkyNet sends a terminator into the past to fix this problem. The rebels respond by sending Reese. So here’s the huge coincidence. Reese ends up fathering JC, changing the future, and JC becomes the new hero, AND sends the very same Reese back into the past to fix the problem. Of course, this “coincidence” might be less coincidental if the future JC knows that Reese was his father, but I don’t think that’s ever one of the story points. (I admit I’ve never seen the Connor Chronicles movie, just the series, and I forget some details.) Yeah, it’s a stretch. But we could possibly end up with a stable loop, right? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/31 "2014-02-01T16:35:11Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > _The Terminator_, as a standalone, is pure causal loop. Hence “I’ll be back!” is really a deep metaphysical statement. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/32 "2014-02-01T16:36:07Z")
My story above might not fit the “facts” of the Terminator series(es). The point is that I think it’s possible to create an apparent paradox of the kind where A isn’t born unless A does something. I don’t think I can construct an “A is A’s ancestor” paradox. Sorry, Lazarus Long. Maybe someone smarter can rescue Lazarus from impossibility. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/33 "2014-02-01T16:37:13Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Have you seen this? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u1YilCyOBg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u1YilCyOBg) That’s a hoot! > [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Hence “I’ll be back!” is really a deep metaphysical statement. LOL ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/34 "2014-02-01T17:55:29Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Yeah, it’s a stretch. But we could possibly end up with a stable loop, right? Well sure, we can make up all kinds of stuff to make it work. Maybe Sarah has the baby, decides she doesn’t like the name “John” and decides to name him “Darnell” instead. Maybe Darnell crawls out a window and dies, and Sarah has another son with a different father and names _him_ “John.” Maybe Sarah is already pregnant at the beginning of _The Terminator_ and Kyle Reese doesn’t figure into the father situation at all. The problem is, we only have the information we are provided, and that information explicitly states that it is John Connor who sends back Kyle Reese, and strongly suggests that Kyle Reese is the father of John Connor. It’s really a matter of which theory of time travel/causality you adhere to, and more importantly, which you believe the writers adhere to. As previously stated, IMO _The Terminator_ exists as a single, predeterminate universe. Everything has already happened, and events are set in stone in perpetuity. The subsequent films muddy this up, but I still believe the single timeline can adequately encompass all of the events we are privy to, _The Sarah Connor Chronicles_ (which I did not watch) notwithstanding (personally, I only consider the first two films the absolute canon, but YMMV). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/35 "2014-02-01T18:10:18Z")
What I’ve never understood is why Skynet didn’t fight the rebels by removing all the oxygen from the battlefields or other areas with explosions like a B-52 raid or fill secret buildings with chlorine gas. If Skynet isn’t stupid, this isn’t much of a contest. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/36 "2014-02-02T03:53:43Z")
Skynet projected to go online JUNE 2015. [https://www.outernet.is/](https://www.outernet.is/) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/37 "2014-02-02T16:21:41Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > It’s not hard to imagine a sequence of time-travel events that leads to this kind of thing, oddly enough. It does require some probability-stretching coincidences, though. > > First, the technology for skynet gets invented the normal way, much farther into the future. At some point, time travel is invented/discovered, and they send the tech back into the late 80’s or 90’s, which THEN leads to SkyNet or something like it. Whether SkyNet existed in the “original future” isn’t important. > > I’m going to have problems with verb tenses, but assume there’s a sequence of timelines. Once a timeline is changed by going back in time, that creates a new timeline. What happens to the old timeline past the point of the time-travel insertion is unimportant here. > > So anyway, in timeline 1 (TL1) the tech is created and the first time-travel event happens, creating TL2. (Yeah, there are problems with this, but hey it’s fiction, right?) > > In TL2, tech advances much faster due to the tech being inserted. Assume it’s inserted later than Arnie’s insertion. This causes some sort of SkyNet, which some hero (not JC) leads the rebellion for. SkyNet sends a terminator into the past to fix this problem. The rebels respond by sending Reese. > > So here’s the huge coincidence. Reese ends up fathering JC, changing the future, and JC becomes the new hero, AND sends the very same Reese back into the past to fix the problem. Of course, this “coincidence” might be less coincidental if the future JC knows that Reese was his father, but I don’t think that’s ever one of the story points. (I admit I’ve never seen the Connor Chronicles movie, just the series, and I forget some details.) > > Yeah, it’s a stretch. But we could possibly end up with a stable loop, right? This sort of thing could help explain Agent Doggett. In the first timeline in the sequence, when Skynet briefly got hold of time travel, maybe they were only able to send Quaid back. Then Hicks followed, etc. etc., fast forward to 1995 when Terminator 2 is set, and not much happens. The most advanced tech John Connor experiences is the new PlayStation he buys with his “easy money”, although if he has any sense he won’t play much more than Rayman on it until Resident Evil comes out next year. Unfortunately, the original robot bits that we see in Terminator 2 survived 1984 and allowed Skynet (and Dyson) to make much bigger leaps in their tech development. The result is that by 2029 v2, Skynet has a shiny new T-1000 to send back. E chu ta! > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What I’ve never understood is why Skynet didn’t fight the rebels by removing all the oxygen from the battlefields or other areas with explosions like a B-52 raid or fill secret buildings with chlorine gas. If Skynet isn’t stupid, this isn’t much of a contest. It’s pretty hard to come up with ways for the humans to have any chance at all. In the battlefield scenes in The Terminator, all the machines need is thermal imaging and the humans sneaking around in the Skulls ‘n’ Scrap won’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/38 "2014-02-02T18:01:40Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > It’s pretty hard to come up with ways for the humans to have any chance at all. In the battlefield scenes in The Terminator, all the machines need is thermal imaging and the humans sneaking around in the Skulls ‘n’ Scrap won’t last long. Of course, this is the problem of special-effects inflation. As the movies (and the audience) get more technologically sophisticated, they can’t help but suggest Skynet is also more and more technologically sophisticated. The flashback battles from the first movie suggest Skynet’s approach might be fairly crude and inflexible, with the new flesh-covered terminators (i.e. the 800 series) showing the beginning of actual cleverness though by then it was too little, too late, and the humans were on the road to victory. The second movie (admittedly, the extended version) shows Skynet as smarter, even to the point where it recognizes that its own minions might become _too_ smart, hence 800-series terminators sent out with their learning systems disabled. The third movie muddies the issue, I thought. For some reason Skynet was clever enough to manipulate the humans into mistakenly giving Skynet total control. The exact sequence has never been that clear to me. And in the fourth movie, Skynet is _so_ smart and the tools at its disposal are so advanced that the only way it can lose is if it makes plans that are absurdly complicated while overlooking obvious and simpler opportunities. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/39 "2014-02-02T18:09:43Z")
Reese says he and John met in an extermination camp, they were basically shoveling human corpses into an incinerator or whatever. The first movie makes clear the initial nuclear exchange kills 99% of humanity right off, then it is only up to Skynet to clear up the stragglers. EDIT:Here is the fridge brilliance, Reese says John was the first person that knew the weakpoints of the machines. Why? Because his mother taught him, and who taught her? REESE! ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143/40 "2014-02-02T18:45:27Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > What I’ve never understood is why Skynet didn’t fight the rebels by removing all the oxygen from the battlefields or other areas with explosions like a B-52 raid or fill secret buildings with chlorine gas. If Skynet isn’t stupid, this isn’t much of a contest. There’s some inconsistent information about how SkyNet treated humans even if we look only at the first movie. While SkyNet was supposedly exterminating humans in camps, we have to explain the oddity that it bothered with camps at all. The only explanation I can come up with is that the first machines were primitive enough that humans were still needed for some functions. Those functions may have been related to assembly or perhaps to provide the intelligence for programming, design and/or logistics. Then maybe there was a point where the camps went from slave labor camps to death camps. Partly I’m taking this from the early flashback/forwards in which humans are being hunted by tank-like and helicopter-like machines and the T1 models in the first movie that are just tanks. If the original SkyNet lacks a fully robotic infrastructure, then maybe it needs to keep humans around for a while. If one with an important skillset escaped, SkyNet might prioritize their recapture. There’s also the fact that the humans were using hit-and-run tactics. It’s the very definition of asymmetric warfare that one side has superior weapons that it can’t bring to bear because of the enemy’s tactics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-skynet-terminator-question/680143.md?page=3)