# Why doesn't the death penalty deter crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 18, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600 "2014-12-18T19:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/61 "2014-12-29T18:02:53Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And I suppose the fact that many people have been proved innocent several YEARS after the death sentence doesn’t bother you? They only survived because of those years-long delay. If the sentence had been carried out within 10 days, they would all be dead. > > Does that make a difference to your plan? The death penalty is ultimately about killing people to feel good, which is why there’s so little concern by its supporters over the execution of innocents or whether or not it lowers the crime rate. So it’s not really important that innocent people might be killed, what’s important is to kill more people, faster. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/62 "2014-12-29T19:00:33Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And I suppose the fact that many people have been proved innocent several YEARS after the death sentence doesn’t bother you? They only survived because of those years-long delay. If the sentence had been carried out within 10 days, they would all be dead. Well, then they would still be guilty when we executed them so why would he worry. Our 100% record on only executing the “guilty” would remain intact, without all those uncomfortable questions being raised that we made a mistake. On the other hand I could get behind his idea of Obama adding another 3 justices to the court, particularly if we can choose Scalia, Thomas and Alito to be shuffled off to the death penalty tribunal. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/63 "2014-12-29T21:17:16Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > In the case of the accused, it is 100% effective in preventing future crimes. Yes, whether they were in fact guilty of this crime or not. It is also 100% effective in preventing future redemption. > [@](#): > > The problem is that the system gets gamed, badly. I don’t think there is a person in this country who is unaware that if you get the death penalty, you can play games with the legal system and drag it out for decades. They are not gaming the legal system, they are fighting for their lives, as any human being would. Wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/64 "2014-12-30T06:07:18Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > In the case of the accused, it is 100% effective in preventing future crimes. That, of course, assumes that the accused is convicted. Or, for that matter, even caught. It failed, for example, to prevent Ted Bundy from killing a whole bunch of women. And, in the end, if you simply confess, there is a pretty good chance you will escape the executioner – at least, if you are white. The way that capital punishment is so wildly arbitrary that any kind of effect it has is absolutely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/65 "2014-12-30T13:48:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That, of course, assumes that the accused is convicted. Or, for that matter, even caught. It failed, for example, to prevent Ted Bundy from killing a whole bunch of women. True. But it also prevented him from killing a whole bunch MORE women. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/66 "2014-12-30T14:22:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This surprises me. I seem to recall cases such as the Boston Marathon Bomber and the DC sniper where prosecutors announced their intention to seek the death penalty within days of catching the perp. Is there any evidence to support this claim? Well… there’s no guarantee of a plea bargain; if the prosecution thinks their case is a slam-dunk, they’ll likely have no inclination whatsoever to plea bargain. Personally, I’ve always thought of the death penalty as the ultimate version of the “take the criminals out of circulation” concept, not as a punishment per-se. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/67 "2014-12-30T16:41:00Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > True. But it also prevented him from killing a whole bunch MORE women. How do you figure? He was in prison. He wasn’t going anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/68 "2014-12-30T17:47:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > True. But it also prevented him from killing a whole bunch MORE women. The threat of a death penalty did nothing to deter him, and once captured, life in prison would have prevented the same number of deaths. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/69 "2014-12-30T18:26:59Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > True. But it also prevented him from killing a whole bunch MORE women. And this\* is\* a valid reason for the DP. There are those who are so depraved or callous that they will kill again. Imprisonment doesnt stop them, they can kill other prisoners (and do bad check writers deserve to die?), guards, or arrange killings from their cell. They can also escape or be wrongfully let out. Executing the Ted Bundys are the one sure way of preventing them from killing again- which they will certainly do. Of course, that level of dedicated repeat killer is rare. I would have the DP be very rare, like in CA- certainly not like in Texas where it is promoted to enhance a Governors chance at being elected President. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/70 "2014-12-30T18:30:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The threat of a death penalty did nothing to deter him, and once captured, life in prison would have prevented the same number of deaths. Nope. He could escape, he could kill a guard or another prisoner, arrange killings thru a confederate, etc. All of these have been done by convicted killers. In fact a couple of killings were done by “Life without parole” prisoners as they had nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/71 "2014-12-30T18:58:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Actually a good idea when the crime is something like smoking dope which has little if any negative impact on society. Jail certainly hasn’t deterred its use - and we see states doing away with jail time for it. It does deter its use though. I don’t smoke pot because it’s illegal and I could get in trouble for it. Lots of people don’t smoke pot because it’s illegal and they could get in trouble for it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/72 "2014-12-30T21:00:37Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > It does deter its use though. I don’t smoke pot because it’s illegal and I could get in trouble for it. Lots of people don’t smoke pot because it’s illegal and they could get in trouble for it. The problem is that making weed illegal is the one thing that turns it into a “gateway drug”. As long as it is illegal, if you really do want to use it, you have to by definition associate with persons of questionable character. Make it legal and that issue fades to insignificance. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/73 "2014-12-30T21:49:30Z")
Of course, but that doesn’t mean that it being illegal is not in fact a deterrence. Whether it should be or not is a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/74 "2014-12-31T03:54:27Z")
Does anybody have any data that compares the use of the death penalty in the US vs. the rest of the world? If the DP doesn’t deter criminals in the US, it may have more to do with the way it is carried out here than it does with the DP itself. People consistently discount the future. Given the nature of the criminal justice system in the US, it’s often times better than a decade between the commission of a crime and the execution. If a potential murder had reason to believe he may be executed within a much shorter period of time, I would imagine it would be more effective. Of course, the DP has issues as is. Speeding up the process could only exacerbate the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/75 "2014-12-31T04:06:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. He could escape, he could kill a guard or another prisoner, arrange killings thru a confederate, etc. All of these have been done by convicted killers. In fact a couple of killings were done by “Life without parole” prisoners as they had nothing to lose. Tell me, what percentage of wrongful executions is an acceptable level of “collateral damage” to ensure your 100% assurance that the Ted Bundys of the world won’t **maybe** commit additional murders while locked up for life? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/76 "2014-12-31T04:52:36Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Tell me, what percentage of wrongful executions is an acceptable level of “collateral damage” to ensure your 100% assurance that the Ted Bundys of the world won’t **maybe** commit additional murders while locked up for life? I don’t support the death penalty except for treason and similar political crimes, but if I did, this is not an insurmountable objection, and it’s not clear to me that the answer should be ‘zero’. We trade off rival goods all the times when doing cost benefit analyses. Let’s say, to throw out an arbitrary number, 5%? (I don’t support the death penalty for murder anyway, so I wouldn’t execute most of the people on death row currently in America. Dzokhar Tsarnaev and a couple others maybe excepted). ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/77 "2014-12-31T04:53:55Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Does anybody have any data that compares the use of the death penalty in the US vs. the rest of the world? If the DP doesn’t deter criminals in the US, it may have more to do with the way it is carried out here than it does with the DP itself. > > People consistently discount the future. Given the nature of the criminal justice system in the US, it’s often times better than a decade between the commission of a crime and the execution. If a potential murder had reason to believe he may be executed within a much shorter period of time, I would imagine it would be more effective. > > Of course, the DP has issues as is. Speeding up the process could only exacerbate the situation. As a friend of mine likes to say, executing political prisoners is probably one area where the death penalty does have a really good deterrent effect, because political crimes usually aren’t crimes of passion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/78 "2014-12-31T16:54:50Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Tell me, what percentage of wrongful executions is an acceptable level of “collateral damage” to ensure your 100% assurance that the Ted Bundys of the world won’t **maybe** commit additional murders while locked up for life? Tell me, how many innocents are you willing to sacrifice so that the DP is ended? ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/79 "2014-12-31T17:13:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Maybe we should abolish incarceration. It doesn’t deter crime. A stroke of genius. (It strikes at the root of the problem and almost no one can see it.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600/80 "2014-12-31T17:33:30Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I don’t support the death penalty except for treason and similar political crimes, but if I did, this is not an insurmountable objection, and it’s not clear to me that the answer should be ‘zero’. We trade off rival goods all the times when doing cost benefit analyses. Let’s say, to throw out an arbitrary number, 5%? > > (I don’t support the death penalty for murder anyway, so I wouldn’t execute most of the people on death row currently in America. Dzokhar Tsarnaev and a couple others maybe excepted). Value judgment there. My tolerance for executing innocent people in the hope of deterrence is much smaller than yours. Say, zero. But I thank you for answering the question in a forthright way. That’s refreshing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-death-penalty-deter-crime/707600.md?page=5)