# Why doesn't the government fully subsidize adoptions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585 "2009-08-07T00:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/21 "2009-08-07T02:17:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The U.S. federal government is not in the business of just paying for anything and everything that a U.S. citizen wants. By asking me why the U.S. federal government should not pay for it, you are looking at the issue from the wrong angle. More half-assed slogans. Assuming our elected representatives decided to pass legislation that would reimburse adopting parents for their expenses, can you name some objections you would have to such a program? Or is it just going to be more “government should never do anything for anyone?” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/22 "2009-08-07T02:18:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > If you are looking for a little baby you’re not actually looking for a ‘needy’ child as there is a greater demand for babies than there are for older kids. If you wanted to work with older kids you could try fostering, for which the state will pay you, and then eventually adopt. It’s probably one of the least expensive options. > > As for getting kids from Uzbekistan, why should the government subsidize foreign adoption? We just went through IVF because foster to adoption was such a royal pain, and we weren’t asking for the moon. Under two years old, no FAS, as limited in utero drug exposure as possible. Race/sex unimportant. Every time we came up, it became clear that we were having an emergency placement with no plan on looking for permanent situations. Too much of a roller coaster of emotions for us. You would be shocked how bad a parent you have to be to have your children permanently removed. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/23 "2009-08-07T02:21:24Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > For anyone who is not familiar with Der Trihs–this is what he does. He never makes an actual argument, he just states conclusions, which are usually accompanied by personal attacks. Let’s carry on. I’m doing neither; I’m simply pointing out what your worldview is like, Mr “Let the weak perish”. **Rumor\_Watkins** called you “too cruel to be real”; I was making it clear that you really are the kind of person you are making yourself out to be in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/24 "2009-08-07T02:21:40Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > More half-assed slogans. > > Assuming our elected representatives decided to pass legislation that would reimburse adopting parents for their expenses, can you name some objections you would have to such a program? Or is it just going to be more “government should never do anything for anyone?” Let me ask you this. I want a Peraves Ecomobile really really badly. Assuming our elected representatives decided to pass legislation that would buy me a Peraves Ecomobile, can you name some objections you would have to such a program? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/25 "2009-08-07T02:25:11Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Let me ask you this. I want a Peraves Ecomobile really really badly. Assuming our elected representatives decided to pass legislation that would buy me a Peraves Ecomobile, can you name some objections you would have to such a program? I have no idea what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/26 "2009-08-07T02:26:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’m doing neither; I’m simply pointing out what your worldview is like, Mr “Let the weak perish”. **Rumor\_Watkins** called you “too cruel to be real”; I was making it clear that you really are the kind of person you are making yourself out to be in this thread. I’m not going to debate what I mean when I said something like “let the weak perish” because I’ve already explained it a hundred times. Suffice it to say that you are wrong in taking it to mean that I think the government should just let all poor people die. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/27 "2009-08-07T02:27:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > We just went through IVF because foster to adoption was such a royal pain, and we weren’t asking for the moon. Under two years old, no FAS, as limited in utero drug exposure as possible. Race/sex unimportant. > > Every time we came up, it became clear that we were having an emergency placement with no plan on looking for permanent situations. Too much of a roller coaster of emotions for us. > > You would be shocked how bad a parent you have to be to have your children permanently removed. No I wouldn’t. My best friends growing up were adopted by my neighbors as children. The oldest David who was my age was about 11 when they were finally adopted. They’d been in and out of their home with their drug addict parents who beat them regularly. David told me stories of going around to the neighbors and begging for food for him and his little brother and sister. This is an 8 year old mind you. The Father even raped his little sister who was about 4 when she was removed from the home. They were in and out of therapy their whole lives, as adults all three of them are straight up broken. David is basically brain damaged from the drugs. This is a kid who was brilliant as a young kid was doing electronics projects of his own accord when we were in Junior High. His brother is on the same path. His sister is married to some college Professor out in Ohio who treats her like garbage. He’s much older than her and knocked her up, she is the pretty little trophy wife with the abusive older husband. I wouldn’t be surprised at all, I saw it first hand. I was beaten all the time when I was a kid with all manner of things half the time for arbitrary reasons. David envied me, and he knew what I went through. He thought I had it so good. When I threatened to call social services on my parents they had David’s adopted Mother sit me down and explain to me how much worse it would be for me. Hell, I still consider his adopted parents to be worse than mine were. It’s a mess, I’ve seen it first hand. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/28 "2009-08-07T02:27:41Z")
I have often wondered why people would pay so much money for a foreign adoption. If you went through the foster care system, with the intention of eventually adopting, you wouldn’t have to pay much, if anything. The risk is that the child was removed from his home for some reason, and so at the very least may have some emotional issues. However, children adopted from foreign orphanages have questionable backgrounds as well, and you will have even less idea what the child’s background and parent history was. So, I guess my answer is, the government does subsidize adoptions, the ones from foster care. It has a vested interest in getting those kids out of foster care and into homes. I don’t see why it should subsidize private or international adoptions. ETA: I started writing this before the posts above me about adopting from foster care were posted. That said, my brother and SIL are waiting to go to China to get a baby, and that is so expensive and seems like such a huge pain in the ass as well, maybe there’s no good answer. However, the question was, why doesn’t the government subsidize adoptions, and the answer is still that they do, out of foster care. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/29 "2009-08-07T02:29:12Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I have no idea what you’re talking about. ?? Do you think it is OK for the government to pay for anything just because Congress voted to do so? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/30 "2009-08-07T02:30:59Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > ?? Do you think it is OK for the government to pay for anything just because Congress voted to do so? Yes, so long as it’s done constitutionally. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/31 "2009-08-07T02:33:21Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I have often wondered why people would pay so much money for a foreign adoption. If you went through the foster care system, with the intention of eventually adopting, you wouldn’t have to pay much, if anything. The risk is that the child was removed from his home for some reason, and so at the very least may have some emotional issues. However, children adopted from foreign orphanages have questionable backgrounds as well, and you will have even less idea what the child’s background and parent history was. I believe there are relatively few babies available for adoption out of foster care. If a couple is intent on adopting a baby, foreign sources are typically easier by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/32 "2009-08-07T02:38:42Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Yes, so long as it’s done constitutionally. OK, so, if Congress passed a bill, and all of the requirements for passing a bill were met, and the purpose of the bill was to give $1 million to Rand Rover, you’d be totally cool with that? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/33 "2009-08-07T02:45:53Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK, so, if Congress passed a bill, and all of the requirements for passing a bill were met, and the purpose of the bill was to give $1 million to Rand Rover, you’d be totally cool with that? Well if you’re a Randian, I’d hope you would have the sense to politely decline the offer, right? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/34 "2009-08-07T02:47:20Z")
What is it about “Randianism” that you think would compel me to decline the offer? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/35 "2009-08-07T02:47:25Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK, so, if Congress passed a bill, and all of the requirements for passing a bill were met, and the purpose of the bill was to give $1 million to Rand Rover, you’d be totally cool with that? No, not if the stated purpose was simply to hand you money for no reason. Are you being serious? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/36 "2009-08-07T02:50:17Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What is it about “Randianism” that you think would compel me to decline the offer? she abhorred altruism. a government law giving you 1 million dollars for no apparent reason would kind of fit the definition of “altruistic” perfectly but I gather you’re the poster who hates government handouts unless they’re financing his education, or something of that sort? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/37 "2009-08-07T02:50:35Z")
Why the hell wouldn’t he be? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/38 "2009-08-07T02:52:37Z")
For us we don’t want to have foster kids and then have them taken away when the court tells mom she can have them back. We are looking to fill a mural need here. We want an addition to the family and the child needs a family. I wish I could say it’s all about helping the child but it has to be right for us too. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/39 "2009-08-07T03:02:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > I believe there are relatively few babies available for adoption out of foster care. If a couple is intent on adopting a baby, foreign sources are typically easier by comparison. This is probably true. If you want a baby who has no health or other problems, foster care would probably be a more challenging route. However, I’m not seeing a compelling reason why the US government would subsidize any adoptions other than out of foster care. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585/40 "2009-08-07T03:03:44Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > she abhorred altruism. a government law giving you 1 million dollars for no apparent reason would kind of fit the definition of “altruistic” perfectly What is altruistic about accepting a gift? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-government-fully-subsidize-adoptions/505585.md?page=3)