# Why doesn't the music industry go after the P2P software instead of the individuals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436 "2003-08-20T14:11:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Penumbra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9f8e36/32.png) [@Penumbra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penumbra)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/1 "2003-08-20T14:11:07Z")
Why doesn’t the music industry go after the P2P (Peer to Peer)software companies like WinMx and others and shut them down like they did Napster instead of going after and sueing the individuals who use the P2P software? Are there just too many P2P software titles out there that it is just easier to go after the individual users? ---
**Author:** ![merge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9f8e36/32.png) [@merge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merge)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/2 "2003-08-20T14:42:36Z")
I believe it has to do with the legality of the software… (I may be wrong) Straight P2P software is legal… but still illegal to trade copyright materials… The industry went after Napster because they were hosting files… That was illegal… It is kind of like owning a gun… you can have one… but you can’t really shoot anyone… You can have Kazaa… but you can’t use it… ---
**Author:** ![d12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/71c47a/32.png) [@d12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d12)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/3 "2003-08-20T16:40:24Z")
With programs such as Kazaa, they give you the option to not share files. While it may be legal to share drawings or homemade movies to the world, it is still illegal to do that with copyrighted material. Weather or not you’re using a P2P program for legal or illegal reasons depends on the user and there really isn’t any blame that could be put on the software. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/4 "2003-08-20T17:10:17Z")
Kazaa (capitalise random letters as desired) are owned by [Sharman Networks](http://www.sharmannetworks.com/), who are based in Australia. I seem to recall that the previous owners of Kazaa were Dutch. It is therefore a lot trickier for American organizations to pursue them than US-based Napster. They are also investigating trading both paid content and downloads licensed by copyright-holders (e.g. distributing samples of a band’s work with the record company’s position), which must provide a significant part of their funding and would make it hard to claim their primary business is in permitting piracy. Gnutella is even more complex, because there are a large number of different Gnutella clients out there developed by different people around the world, and to track them all down would be complex. There are multiple clients that interface with Kazaa, but Gnutella takes that to extremes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/5 "2003-08-20T17:31:12Z")
Also, some of the newer applications are completely decentralized, unlike Napster. With Napster, once the central Napster servers were taken down, the whole system stopped working. As I understand it, this is not the case with the newer ones, so there’s no single clear target. ---
**Author:** ![DiLLiGaF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@DiLLiGaF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiLLiGaF)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/6 "2003-08-20T17:31:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by merge \* > \*\*The industry went after Napster because they were hosting files… That was illegal… > \*\* I think that is the key right there, Napster was actually performing a hosting function where Kazaa and the like just provide the mechanism to transfer the files. Going after them would be like going after Off-Shore boat or small plane manufacturers because people use them for smuggling drugs. They aren’t acutally doing anything wrong, its the people that use their products that are breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Headcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@Headcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headcoat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/7 "2003-08-20T21:19:32Z")
How do Kazaa (and other p2p’s) make money? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Xadium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Dr\_Xadium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Xadium)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/8 "2003-08-20T23:55:54Z")
It’s because of pressure from the RIAA (media lobbying group) and their public relations arm. P2P unto itself is not illegal; it’s the way some users use it that’s illegal-- i.e. they share materials they don’t own copyright to. Anything they make themselves (in the US, anyway) is automatically copyrighted to them, so that is fine to share. But when they share stuff owned by the RIAA, the RIAA takes action. They go after the users because its easier to find them and prove their crime-- (of course they try to go after the software, but by that reasoning cars should be banned because some people use them to run over other people.) Same thing with the MP3 format-- at first the RIAA tried to say the format in and of itself was “bad”… and to this day lots of Internet service providers won’t let you host them because they automatically assume it’s an illegal recording-- still it could just be a recording of me yodeling, for instance. Yet they leave OGG alone, which does the exact same thing as MP3 (with better quality) Ironically now the RIAA wants to sell people MP3s (protected, of course). > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Headcoat \* > \*\*How do Kazaa (and other p2p’s) make money? \*\* They generally embed ad banners into the software which the user supposedly looks at whilst they are downloading… not to mention spyware which can track your internet navigation habits and in some cases, even redirect click-through affiliate profits from online stores to their own accounts (though this illegal practice has mostly stopped) ---
**Author:** ![transitionality](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@transitionality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transitionality)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/9 "2003-08-21T02:43:08Z")
Suing P2P software companies for causing piracy is like suing McDonalds because eating too many Big Mac’s made you fat. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/10 "2003-08-21T03:13:37Z")
The RIAA did try to sue some P2P software providers several months ago, but their lawsuit was [smacked down](http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20030425/124218.shtml) in April: > [@](#): > > “Defendants distribute and support software, the users of which can and do choose to employ it for both lawful and unlawful ends. Grokster and Streamcast are not significantly different from companies that sell home video recorders or copy machines, both of which can be and are used to infringe copyrights.” ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/11 "2003-08-21T10:21:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr\_Xadium \* > \*\*They generally embed ad banners into the software which the user supposedly looks at whilst they are downloading… not to mention spyware which can track your internet navigation habits and in some cases, even redirect click-through affiliate profits from online stores to their own accounts (though this illegal practice has mostly stopped) \*\* I should mention that this is true only of Kazaa and some other “big name” programs. Most of the free software clients, for example those for Linux, are developed by volunteers who are not out to make money but merely to develop great software for the community. Thus, they are adware and spyware-free. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/12 "2003-08-21T16:02:16Z")
Well, I read this morning on [slashdot.org](http://slashdot.org) that they subpoenaed the creator a program called Xmule, which I presume is a client on the eDonkey network. Also, I’m pretty sure Napster was NOT hosting any files. ---
**Author:** ![InquisitiveIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@InquisitiveIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InquisitiveIdiot)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/13 "2003-08-21T16:26:11Z")
Eh. I’m [not worried.](http://freenet.sourceforge.net/) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/14 "2003-08-21T17:05:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Revtim \* > \*\* Also, I’m pretty sure Napster was NOT hosting any files. \*\* That’s right. Napster didn’t host any files either. What it did do is allow users to connect to their own central server, register the files available to share, and then match up those willing to share with those wanting to download. No files were on their servers. The newer P2P clients don’t even need the server to figure out where the files are. The difference is subtle but it makes all the difference in the world because there is no central point to shut down at all. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Xadium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed655f/32.png) [@Dr\_Xadium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Xadium)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-music-industry-go-after-the-p2p-software-instead-of-the-individuals/196436/15 "2003-08-22T07:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnuMondo \* > \*\*I should mention that this is true only of Kazaa and some other “big name” programs. Most of the free software clients, for example those for Linux, are developed by volunteers who are not out to make money but merely to develop great software for the community. Thus, they are adware and spyware-free. > > UnuMondo \*\* Such is the power of the transparency of Open Source… There are people who strip out the spyware in the windows versions of those programs as well. Which, of course, is technically illegal because it violates some EULA or another…