# Why doesn't the U.S. hire mercenaries to help us fight? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786 "2003-03-28T14:57:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/21 "2003-03-28T21:19:21Z")
[http://www.legion.org/publications/pubs\_2002/pubs\_mag\_index\_apr02.htm](http://www.legion.org/publications/pubs_2002/pubs_mag_index_apr02.htm) > [@](#): > > Hard numbers don’t exist on how many American mercenaries roam the world looking for action. Army Special Forces soldiers at Fort Bragg, N.C., say perhaps 200 ex-Green Berets work for foreign governments today. Most, if not all, work for private U.S. companies under license from the State Department. They teach combat skills rather than directly participate in violence. > > \< snip \> > > The U.S. State Department issues scores of permits annually to U.S. security companies to train and advise friendly foreign armies. > > \< snip \> > > It is risky business not just from a physical standpoint, but also from a legal one. The U.S. Criminal Code generally prohibits an American citizen from serving in a foreign military. > > William Woodruff, a former Army lawyer and now a professor at Campbell University School of Law, says any American joining a foreign army is legally at risk. “It would certainly raise the issue, especially if in some way, shape or form that foreign force came in hostile contact with elements of the United States,” Woodruff says. > > U.S. statutes single out those who enlist as commissioned officers in foreign armies, Woodruff says. “The law is assuming some sort of leadership. When you are a commissioned officer, you are an officer of the United States. When you are a private, you are not. It is not a constitutional office you are holding.” > > The rules for retired military personnel are much stricter, says Charles Gittins, a former Marine Corps judge advocate general who practices military criminal law. > > Gittins also says that any American who decides to fight on his own overseas cannot expect constitutional protections enjoyed by the U.S. armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![gruntz\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gruntz\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gruntz_1)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/22 "2003-03-29T00:40:30Z")
Our troops are well trained, equiped, and motivated. Why hire mercs? Waste of money. There isw no merc force that can do something more special than any number of our special forces, or even regular infantry men can do. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/23 "2003-03-29T02:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arturas \* > \*\*Am I out of date or does the law still stand that any US citizen proven to be fighting as a mercenary for a foreign state automatically losses his/her citizenship? If this is still in force, then it would be real odd for the US to be hiring mercenaries. This rule was established to discourage people from becoming mercenaries in the first place. \*\* So then what happened with the US citizen who went off to fight for Al Quaeda. Wasn’t he exported off to Guantanamo like all the other big heads rather than just dealt with on the ground like a normal grunt? I seems to me that if you renounce someones citizenship, you shouldn’t be able to do stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/24 "2003-03-29T05:24:17Z")
John Walker Lindh is currently serving a sentence of 20 years for aiding the Taliban. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/10/04/lindh.statement/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/10/04/lindh.statement/index.html) [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/03/06/walker.lindh.prison/](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/03/06/walker.lindh.prison/) ---
**Author:** ![Arturas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@Arturas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arturas)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/25 "2003-03-29T05:32:37Z")
Interesting point. You are correct. His citizenship was not recalled. Any prisoners in Guantanamo who could prove US citizenship were sent to the mainland and tried for treason in a federal court, presumably so that they would have no right to complain. Think I would prefer Guantanamo myself. No need to be involved in the prison gangs. Anyone know how those convicted of treason are being treated by their fellow inmates? Is it a mark of prestige to have been trained to kill Americans in 10 different nasty ways or are they lower than child molesters? You realise that having a passport issued is a privilege, not a right. Does anyone know if people convicted of treason can obtain a passport in the future? THink I’ll open a new thread on this one. ---
**Author:** ![JamesCarroll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@JamesCarroll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JamesCarroll)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/26 "2003-03-29T06:11:51Z")
Hate to bring you back to the point that the OP missed, but the reason why GWB is reqesting so much money has nothing to do with the men that are actually firing the weapons, whether they be American born or otherwise, but the replacement of weapons and resources used during the current conflict. It doesn’t matter WHO is firing, but WHAT they are. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/27 "2003-03-29T06:28:39Z")
Do a search for “Canada Vietnam veterans” are you’ll find references to [“The North Wall”](http://www.glanmore.org/cdncas/memorialair.html), a monument to 103 Canadians who enlisted with American forces and subsequently died in Vietnam. Official statistics of how many Canadians went south are hard to find, since technically they were violating Canadian law, but in any event there were quite a few of them and this is the last time the American military had a significant “mercenary” force. It didn’t offset the number of Americans who sneaked north to avoid enlisting, but it helped a little. ---
**Author:** ![mcbiggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7c8e57/32.png) [@mcbiggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcbiggins)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/28 "2003-03-29T08:51:19Z")
Wired ran [this story](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/gunhire.html) a few months back about how more and more of the jobs one would think belonged to the US military is being outsourced. It talks about companies like DynCorp who are pretty much modern-day merc units. A lot of what they do is security at border crossing, weapons ranges and the like, but they did send people to Afganastan and participated in the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/29 "2003-03-29T11:11:56Z")
Sandline is another Merc company, or “PMC”, which stands for “Private Military Company”. The cool thing about them is, they run it like a corporation. They are licensed in S. Africa (one of the few nations to allow PMC’s to register) and have a “Code of Conduct” that they try to adhere to so as to avoid running into problems with the law. Specifically, they will night fight against a recognized gov’t. They will not assist in illegal actions, such as drug running or caravan work on illicit goods. All people in action comport themselves according to the UCMJ. Seems like a good outfit to work with. They got some press in the late 90’s from doing some work on the Ivory Coast to help fight rebel forces. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/30 "2003-03-29T14:25:50Z")
Back to the post by **Arturas** : No, there is no such thing as “automatic” removal-of-citizenship in the USA: absent your own resignation and declaration of allegiance to another sovereign, the government has to carry out a process to prove that you forfeited it by your actions – service in a foreign military can be _evidence_ of that, but it has to be judged case-by-case. And in cases like Lindh’s, it’s often more in the state’s interest to try you as a traitor as opposed to treating you as either a foreign POW (if you enlisted in a proper Army) or even “Unlawful Combatant” (which would likely be the status of a mercenary) ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786/31 "2003-03-29T15:01:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > \*\* > > 1. I believe that all federal employees are entitled to federal pension plans. What branch of the Civil Service or Armed Forces pension plan would “mercenaries” come under? \*\* It’s called “outsourcing” and one reason for it is that you _don’t pay_ the fringes of regular emplyees. This isn’t to be taken as support for the idea in the OP. I think that is a bad one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-the-u-s-hire-mercenaries-to-help-us-fight/164786.md?page=1)