# Why doesn't Warren Buffett pay more taxes? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816 "2011-09-19T12:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/41 "2011-09-19T21:18:48Z")
> [@SmartAlecCat](#): > > Atypical? He bet that others in his situation were similarly undertaxed. > > He issued his famous [challenge](http://www.cnbc.com/id/21708265/Warren_Buffett_s_Fellow_Billionaires_Don_t_Bite_on_Million_Dollar_Tax_Challenge) : Exactly. Buffet anticipates the rational counter to his rebuttal – that his situation was atypical, and the rich really do pay a higher marginal tax rate. The fact that none of his detractors try to make the obvious case is evidence that it is false and Buffet’s tax rate is typical. The “well why doesn’t Buffet pay more taxes if he wants to” trope concedes Buffet’s point. It’s not even an ad hominem argument – it’s just “you’re right, here’s something else to talk about”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/42 "2011-09-19T21:18:57Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > …someone needs to ask him why his company has been in court for the last few years trying to get out of paying about 1 billion in taxes. He has a fiduciary responsibility to his investors to not pay more taxes than he is required to. That’s entirely different from his personal income tax, which affects no one else besides himself. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/43 "2011-09-19T23:54:40Z")
So it looks like Warren Buffett paid over 700 times the amount of federal income tax last year than I did. Fucking freeloader. He should pay at least 900 times more than me. In fact, everything should be like that. When I went to Monticello last year, the admission was $11.95. I think that Buffett should have to pay $1011.95 for admission, just to be fair and equal. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/44 "2011-09-20T00:40:26Z")
For the same reason that Republican congressmen who want to cut federal spending don’t voluntarily refuse federal money for their states. If they think the government spends too much, they should stop taking federal highway funds, federal education funds, and any other form of federal spending. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/45 "2011-09-20T00:48:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > For the same reason that Republican congressmen who want to cut federal spending don’t voluntarily refuse federal money for their states. If they think the government spends too much, they should stop taking federal highway funds, federal education funds, and any other form of federal spending. Almost, but not really. If Congresscritter X refused federal funds, that would not reduce the amount of spending. The spending would just be shifted elsewhere. And since Congresscritter X can’t control the amount of taxes the federal government takes, he might as well get as much of his share back as he can. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/46 "2011-09-20T00:57:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Almost, but not really. If Congresscritter X refused federal funds, that would not reduce the amount of spending. The spending would just be shifted elsewhere. So why cut any spending project? It will just be spent elsewhere. > [@](#): > > And since Congresscritter X can’t control the amount of taxes the federal government takes, he might as well get as much of his share back as he can. Might as well. Reducing the deficit is a fool’s errand. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/47 "2011-09-20T01:10:35Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Although those donations (and those contemplated in his will) do have the effect of reducing his tax liability. Oddly enough, if you donate $1 or $1million, you still reduce your taxes by much less than the amount you donated. You are still out of pocket by more than if you just paid taxes. He’s giving away money over and above his taxes, out of his own pocket, just to help others. Not a lot different than giving it to the US government, but he gets to direct it to more productive charitable uses. I assume the USA is like Canada, and giving to charity means you effectively subtract that money from taxable income - so in Buffet’s case, he would donate $1 and reduce his taxes by 19 cents… Hardly the primary motive for a donation. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/48 "2011-09-20T01:13:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The question is quite silly and pointless, yet the dregs that inhabit the letters to the editor section of your local paper think it’s the Ace of Trumps. Yes, I think taxes should be raised, too. No, I don’t make a voluntary contribution. Why not? Because it won’t mean squat. My entire bracket can afford to pay more, and those that make 6 figures (I don’t) can jolly well afford to pay more, and those that make 7+ figures can triple what they currently pay. Any one of us can volunteer to pay more, but it would be like taking an eyedropper full of water out of the ocean. What we need is to raise taxes, raise them now, and raise them on the upper middle class and above. Slight nitpick. As someone who occaisionly makes “7 figures,” and pays about a third of my income in taxes, there is no way I could “triple” what I pay. I could, and should, pay more. Like Mr. Buffet, however, I won’t do it unless everyone else in my bracket has to also. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/49 "2011-09-20T01:46:44Z")
[quote=“Fear\_Itself, post:46, topic:596816”] So why cut any spending project? It will just be spent elsewhere./quote] Not necessarily. If Congress cuts a program, it has the option of cutting the overall budget by the same amount. > [@](#): > > Might as well. Reducing the deficit is a fool’s errand. I hope not. Eventually, it has to be addressed. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/50 "2011-09-20T04:02:03Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > His point was not that he _ **could** _ send more taxes - his point was that all rich people in general pay a much lower tax rate and percentage of taxes than middle and lower income people, \*\*yet reap much higher benefit from society. (Educated servants, police system that ensurs they don’t need an army of security guards everywhere, air traffic control for their private jets, etc.) \*\*His point was that maybe everyone should pay their fair share. Do you have a cite for the bolded part? He certainly did not mention that in the [New York Times Opinion column](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html) that has generated so much discussion. Maybe he said it elsewhere, but I have not seen it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/51 "2011-09-20T04:25:16Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Warren Buffet has been in the news recently, advocating higher tax rates for high earners such as himself. Some of his detractors have noted, quite correctly, that he can send more money to the treasury any time he wants to; he need not wait for his 1040 form to demand more from him. > > Factual question: has someone directly asked Mr. Buffett why he doesn’t voluntarily pay more in taxes right now, and if so, what was his response? That is a childish response and a complete misunderstanding of what it is about. Buffet can not fix the deficit by himself. He was merely pointing out that the tax system has been rigged in favor of the wealthy. They pay far less a proportion of their income than the rest of us. It is class warfare and his class in winning. He is also smart enough to know changing the tax rates so the wealthy and corporations pay more will help fix the deficits. When Ike was president, the wealthy paid over 80 percent. They were still rich. But the government was a lot more solvent . We built the interstate road system at that time. Now we can’t maintain our infrastructure. Our bridges are falling down and our roads are screwed up. But back then we had nearly full employment and we built things. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/52 "2011-09-20T05:34:29Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > [Septimus: “You didn’t answer my first hypothetical about Larry Dolan and the Designated Hitter rule”] > Most people place at least some value on following the rule of law, even if they don’t fully agree with it… I can type rolleyes too: :rolleyes: A baseball team is in full compliance with Major League Baseball Rule 6.10 if it has the pitcher bat for himself, so your pompous “rule of law” doesn’t apply to my first example. Try answering that question. It really might help you understand your fallacy. If that’s something that would have value for you. Oh, and by the way, it’s really ironic to hear the Greed is Good school lambaste Mr. Buffett for being so greedy as to not make donations to the U.S. Treasury, when in fact Mr. Buffett is near the top of the list for most generous philanthropist ever. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/53 "2011-09-20T07:58:48Z")
Oh for Og’s sake, **Septimus** , spit it out. If you have some point to make, some fallacy to point out, then \*do so \*instead of coming up with obscure analogies for showing off your knowledge of baseball rules. For all I know I may agree with whatever the hell you are trying to say, when you finally get around to saying it, but at this point all you are being is irritating. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/54 "2011-09-20T09:57:15Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > We know the exact figures. He paid 19% of his income last year. For him to pay the same 29% as his secretary would have him pay $5.5 million more. Am I the only person horrified that a secretary is paying a 29% rate?? hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/55 "2011-09-20T10:03:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Oh, and by the way, it’s really ironic to hear the Greed is Good school lambaste Mr. Buffett for being so greedy as to not make donations to the U.S. Treasury, when in fact Mr. Buffett is near the top of the list for most generous philanthropist ever. And none of it is tax deductible! What?? Nobody in the Greed is good school are saying that he is so greedy…they are calling him a jerk for saying that he, himself, should be paying more, but, he’s not doing it, and advocating government coercion to make it mandatory, because a law is necessary to make him pay more…because a billionaire is powerless to send money to the government… Therein lies the irony… hh ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/56 "2011-09-20T10:41:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Oh for Og’s sake, **Septimus** , spit it out. If you have some point to make, some fallacy to point out, then \*do so \*instead of coming up with obscure analogies for showing off your knowledge of baseball rules. For all I know I may agree with whatever the hell you are trying to say, when you finally get around to saying it, but at this point all you are being is irritating. First of all, I gave the baseball rule analogy because I honestly thought it would clarify. I certainly was not trying to “show off baseball knowledge” – I thought I knew less about baseball than any other American, but I guess I’m behind you, **Princhester** for that distinction. 🆒 Second, I’m honestly confounded that my point is hard to understand. Let me bold-face it: _ **What one advocates as public policy doesn’t necessarily impact one’s personal decisions.** _ I might support U.S. war against Iran but “Then why don’t you go fight them alone?” would be a silly question: I’d want to be backed up by the whole U.S. army, not fight solitaire. I might support reducing freeway speed limit from 65 to 55 MPH, but still travel at the more convenient 65 until the law is changed. I might oppose food stamps as a matter of public policy but, as long as the program exists, accept them to help my dependents. Is that hypocritical? I might support subsidies for environment-friendly appliances, but, while such subsidies don’t exist, still buy unfriendly appliances in the selfish interest of my dependents. **What one advocates as public policy doesn’t necessarily impact one’s personal decisions.** I realize that what I advocate here seems to violate “The Golden Rule.” In fact, very few of us adhere faithfully to that rule; instead family fathers like myself feel an obligation to further the selfish interests of our children. > [@handsomeharry](#): > > …they are calling him a jerk for saying that he, himself, should be paying more, but, he’s not doing it, and advocating government coercion to make it mandatory, … **What one advocates as public policy doesn’t necessarily impact one’s personal decisions.** I would offer the same defense for Mr. Buffett if he greedily kept his huge income. That he instead finds it preferable to earmark specific charities rather than the U.S. Treasury makes the objections peculiarly fatuous. **Mr. Buffett advocates a public policy** independent of his personal situation. Is this really hard to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/57 "2011-09-20T11:09:44Z")
To throw another analogy at the OP (and hopefully finish it off): It’s like if I believed banks should raise their interest rates. It would be absurd to suggest that I should therefore pay back anything I borrow at a higher rate than the bank is requesting from me (or else be a hypocrite, or it’s “ironic”, or whatever). * * * I’ve heard the “why doesn’t he voluntarily pay more tax” argument used in several different media now and apparently it’s the best retort anyone can think of for Buffet’s tax suggestion :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/58 "2011-09-20T13:10:09Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I thought I knew less about baseball than any other American, but I guess I’m behind you, **Princhester** for that distinction. 🆒 I’m not American. > [@](#): > > Second, I’m honestly confounded that my point is hard to understand. Let me bold-face it: > > _ **What one advocates as public policy doesn’t necessarily impact one’s personal decisions.** _ No, your point is not at all hard to understand, and as I thought I agree with it. Now that you _make it_. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/59 "2011-09-20T17:14:04Z")
Both [IRS and CBO income tax data disagree with Buffett](http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/09/buffett-rule-is-based-on-anecdotal.html). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816/60 "2011-09-20T18:10:32Z")
> [@Dr.Love](#): > > Both [IRS and CBO income tax data disagree with Buffett](http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2011/09/buffett-rule-is-based-on-anecdotal.html). Wrong. [Mr. Buffett’s actual comment](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html) (gasp!! is it fair to directly quote the man we’re trying to quote rather than using the synopsis from FoxNews or – worse – the “American Enterprise Institute” ?) was > [@](#): > > … the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf … and payroll taxes … and then are hit with heavy payroll taxes to boot … payroll tax … employee contribution to the payroll tax … I’ve edited Mr, Buffett’s comment – those who get their information from FoxNews and the American Enterprise Institute tend to have low attention spans – but I hope I’ve left enough intact to clarify that Mr. Buffett included all payroll taxes in his “taxes paid to the federal government.” One can debate whether including such taxes is appropriate. (I think it is; after all these are real moneys afforded by a person’s employer and hence impacting the employment picture.) **But what we mustn’t do (at least if we pretend to be honest) is to ignore Mr. Buffett’s actual words; pretend he said something different; and invent lies.** **Dr. Love** , I hope learning that Mark J. Perry is a liar will help you in future. Out of curiosity, do you get your “information” from his blogs or is that just what you found Googling for what you wanted to find? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-doesnt-warren-buffett-pay-more-taxes/596816.md?page=4)