# Why don't apologists--you know--apologize?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 16, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262 "2009-04-16T03:00:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/1 "2009-04-16T03:00:13Z")
(Not sure if this is the right forum, but…)
To "apologize"means to express sorrow and remorse for something, to admit wrong-doing and to take responsibility, etc.
But to be an apologist for someone is to deny and justify, spin and stonewall on their behalf, which is the opposite of apologizing.
Or am I defining apologizing wrongly? Perhaps it means to try to talk your way out of a situation one way or another in order avoid punishment or condemnation.
Oh, and _im_flammable means _flammable?_
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/2 "2009-04-16T03:07:45Z")
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> Apologists are authors, writers, editors of scientific logs or academic journals, and leaders known for taking on the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that are either placed under popular scrutinies or viewed under persecutory examinations. **The term comes from the Greek word apologia (απολογία), meaning a speaking in defense.**
(bolding added)
Perhaps you wanted this in GQ? Otherwise, even as an atheist proselytizer, I’d have to say this is a rather lame stab at religion (presuming it to be so.)
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/3 "2009-04-16T03:13:24Z")
You know another word usage that pisses me off? “Witnessing” as a synonym for preaching. Unless you’ve personally seen the resurrected Jesus Christ in the flesh, you haven’t witnessed a damned thing. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/4 "2009-04-16T03:15:09Z")
Not much to add. In the sense that you’re referring to, “apologist” means “defender.”
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/5 "2009-04-16T03:17:26Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> You know another word usage that pisses me off? “Witnessing” as a synonym for preaching. Unless you’ve personally seen the resurrected Jesus Christ in the flesh, you haven’t witnessed a damned thing. :rolleyes:
Preaching and witnessing are two separate things. Preaching is giving a speech that contains lessons and thoughts. Witnessing is the blathering of someone who feels he has personally experienced something world-changing and OMG-must-share-right-now.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/6 "2009-04-16T03:19:50Z")
And why don’t economists economize?
> [@sqweels](#):
>
> But to be an apologist for someone is to deny and justify, spin and stonewall on their behalf, which is the opposite of apologizing.
>
> Or am I defining apologizing wrongly? Perhaps it means to try to talk your way out of a situation one way or another in order avoid punishment or condemnation.
You might want to look up the definition (or [the Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologist) of the word.
> [@](#):
>
> The term apologetics etymologically derives from the Classical Greek word apologia. In the Classical Greek legal system two key technical terms were employed: the prosecution delivered the kategoria (κατηγορία), and the defendant replied with an apologia. To deliver an apologia then meant making a formal speech to reply and rebut the charges, as in the case of Socrates’ defense.
>
> …
>
> In the English language, the word apology is derived from the Greek word apologia, but its use has changed; its primary sense now refers to a plea for forgiveness for a wrong act. Implicit in this is an admission of guilt, thus turning on its head the “speaking in defense” aspect of the original concept. An uncommon secondary sense refers to a speech or writing that defends the speaker or author’s position.
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/7 "2009-04-16T03:20:45Z")
> [@sqweels](#):
>
> (But to be an apologist for someone is to deny and justify, spin and stonewall on their behalf, which is the opposite of apologizing.
No, it doesn’t. To be an apologist means [to offer a defense for something.](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apologist) This definition does not contain any inherent obligation to deny, justify, “spin” or stonewall on anyone’s behalf.
Of course, someone who is utterly convinced that the other side is wrong will sometimes accuse its defenders of everything that you’ve said. That’s not what being an apologist means, though. In the interest of combatting ignorance, let’s not act as though that is how the term is defined.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/8 "2009-04-16T03:24:00Z")
> [@Blalron](#):
>
> You know another word usage that pisses me off? “Witnessing” as a synonym for preaching. Unless you’ve personally seen the resurrected Jesus Christ in the flesh, you haven’t witnessed a damned thing. :rolleyes:
My understanding is that “witnessing” (i.e. “bearing witness to”) and “giving one’s testimony” are used by evangelical-type Christians in a sense roughly analogous to their legal meanings. It’s supposed to be more personal than preaching, more along the lines of “This is what God has done in my life.”
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/9 "2009-04-16T03:25:16Z")
And why is “abbreviated” such a long word?
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/10 "2009-04-16T03:28:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> Not much to add. In the sense that you’re referring to, “apologist” means “defender.”
Right. Plato’s dialogue _The Apologia_ recounts Socrates’ defense at his trial; nothing in it can be read as an “apology” in the more usual sense of the English word.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/11 "2009-04-16T03:32:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> And why is “abbreviated” such a long word?
It’s always bugged me that “palindrome” wasn’t a palindrome. Talk about a missed opportunity!
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### Author:  [@Wolverine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolverine)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/12 "2009-04-16T03:57:22Z")
I would like to say that I’m sorry that apologize has more than one meaning. My fault.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/13 "2009-04-16T04:16:12Z")
I heard that Obama was socializing with the Queen. That proves he’s a socialist!
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/14 "2009-04-16T04:31:14Z")
You might as well ask what conservatives conserve.
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/15 "2009-04-16T06:32:45Z")
(There actually was an entertaining article in the Globe a few elections back by nature painter Robert Bateman taking what had recently become the Conservatives to task for their environmental stances, or lack thereof; it was called “I am a conservative, I conserve.”)
Anyway, yes, the original meaning of “apology” is as described. In fact in most languages that have a cognate of “apology,” it does not mean “expression of regret” but “defence” (French _apologie_, etc.) Anglophones are the deviants in this regard.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/16 "2009-04-16T06:43:24Z")
Also, why do you park on the driveway and drive on the park-
\*[BLAM!]
[Alessan is shot in the head by a Mod] \*
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### Author:  [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/17 "2009-04-16T14:51:39Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#):
>
> Perhaps you wanted this in GQ? Otherwise, even as an atheist proselytizer, I’d have to say this is a rather lame stab at religion (presuming it to be so.)
What on earth makes you think this has anything to do with religion?
> [@JThunder](#):
>
> This definition does not contain any inherent obligation to deny, justify, “spin” or stonewall on anyone’s behalf.
I don’t know from “obligation” but that’s usually what it amounts to. Why can’t they apologize?
> [@Thudlow Boink](#):
>
> I heard that Obama was socializing with the Queen. That proves he’s a socialist!
Well, I’m sorry he’s a socialist. I’m sure he didn’t mean it, but he’s been under a lot of stress lately. Those of us who elected him deeply regret it and we promise to make it up to you someday.
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/18 "2009-04-16T15:02:14Z")
> [@sqweels](#):
>
> I don’t know from “obligation” but that’s usually what it amounts to. Why can’t they apologize?
Your own question demonstrates that you think being an apologist means that they should apologize. As several posters have already pointed out, that’s not what the word means.
Why can’t they apologize, you ask? Why should they? There’s nothing in the term “apologist” that imposes such an onus on them.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/19 "2009-04-16T17:04:20Z")
> [@sqweels](#):
>
> [QUOTE=Sage Rat]
>
> Perhaps you wanted this in GQ? Otherwise, even as an atheist proselytizer, I’d have to say this is a rather lame stab at religion (presuming it to be so.)
What on earth makes you think this has anything to do with religion?
[/QUOTE]
The term “apologist” in the sense you criticised in your OP is often used in the phrase “Christian apologist.” For example, [C.S. Lewis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._S._Lewis) is often referred to as a [Christian apologist](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_apologist). I had the same initial reaction as **Sage Rat** and thought you were meaning it in this sense.
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### Author:  [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-apologists-you-know-apologize/493262/20 "2009-04-16T18:26:46Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#):
>
> Anyway, yes, the original meaning of “apology” is as described. In fact in most languages that have a cognate of “apology,” it does not mean “expression of regret” but “defence” (French _apologie_, etc.)
In Spanish “apología” means “defense” but it is not very commonly used. The best known use is the crime “apología del terrorismo”, defense of terrorism, which can land you in jail for defending and promoting terrorism purely by speech.
> [@matt\_mcl](#):
>
> Anglophones are the deviants in this regard.
As in many others. They just don’t seem to realize it.