# Why don't Christians follow Jewish beliefs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401 "2013-12-29T08:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaltkalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@kaltkalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaltkalt)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/21 "2013-12-30T03:41:55Z")
because if they did, persecuting jews and blaming them for killing jesus wouldn’t feel as good, gotta really know it’s “us” versus “them” and gotta clearly know what separates “us” and “them.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/22 "2013-12-30T03:53:24Z")
> [@kaltkalt](#): > > because if they did, persecuting jews and blaming them for killing jesus wouldn’t feel as good, gotta really know it’s “us” versus “them” and gotta clearly know what separates “us” and “them.” **Moderator Warning** **kaltkalt** , since I recently gave you a moderator note for religious jabs in General Questions, I’m going to make this one an Official Warning. Let’s refrain from such extraneous remarks in the future. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/23 "2013-12-30T06:03:49Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Council of Jerusalem: 50 AD: > [Council of Jerusalem - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jerusalem) > > Removed the requirement for converts to christianity to be circumcised and most other jewish laws. > > …Seems to have worked. Compare the total worlds percentage of Jewish vs Christians. Judaism is and historically has been a non-proselytizing religion. The Jews never considered it necessary to become a Jew to be saved (they also did not have a clear understanding of salvation either). Rather, Jews were thought to be _chosen_ as an example for the gentile nations. According to Jewish theology, any monotheistic people could gain God’s favor. Oddly enough, Jews, at least Orthodox Jews, reject Christianity as another form of polytheism. They consider it deplorable that Christians would worship Jesus as equal to God the Father. Early in Christian history, one first had to convert to Judaism before being baptized Christian. I’d image Christianity’s rejection by mainstream Judaism likely contributed to the removal of this requirement. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/24 "2013-12-30T06:15:58Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > … > BTW notice the parts of the Old Law that remain in force according to Acts 15: Prohibitions on idolatry, “fornication” and “blood”. The second of those is why many modern conservative/fundamentalist Christians still claim OT foundation for their positions vis-a-vis pre/extramarital sex & gays (so the “why don’t you follow the rest of Leviticus” counterarguments gloss over this) Also, in the Sermon of the Mount, Jesus discusses many of the harsh punishments due for sins in the Old Testament and systematically over turns the punishments. Thus one does not receive death for cursing his father, etc; however, he does not abolish these as sins. … ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/25 "2013-12-30T12:06:41Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > There is quite a number of passages in the New Testament that have Jesus override (from a Christian perspective) traditional Jewish Torah interpretations. The Sermon on the Mount is a good example. All so when he stopped the stoning of the prostitute! He also called the Torah ;“Your Law”, not God’s ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/26 "2013-12-30T12:13:27Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Actually, it’s not good at all, if you’re a typical conservative Christian who only likes the parts of the Mosaic Law that punish people for their sex lives. Matthew 5: > > That is his definitive take on the subject. And the example of him plucking wheat on the Sabbath is something he said it was OK for HIM to do, not us. On the contrary, when he spoke about Mosaic law for the rest of us, he usually made it stricter. Thou shalt not kill? Jesus said even being angry at someone is a sin. Thou shalt not commit adultery? Jesus said that even thinking about it is a sin. > > And to anticipate the usual Christian response, “till all be fulfilled” does not mean till Jesus dies. There’s still the little matter of the trials and tribulations and Satan being loosed and the rapture and the Second Coming and the stars falling from the sky and the final judgement. He means exactly what he says, “Till heaven and earth pass.” > > Not to mention that if he meant his death, he would be giving a sermon on the importance of strict adherence to the Law for the next couple of months. Jesus is quoted as saying, The world would end in that generation, some churches say it didn’t mean generations as we think of it today, but Matthew who wrote it said there were 14 generations between David and Jesus;( using the word they way we do today.) Nor did he return in his father’s glory while some of the people that were listening to him had seen death! It didn’t happen! quite contrary to John’s telling of the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/27 "2013-12-30T12:17:38Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > This is a really good point. The message of Christianity is more attuned to teaching people what attitudes to hold about life than about defining strict rules of conduct. In Judaism, one might try to find a loophole in the Mosaic Law allowing them to do something that’s not very charitable or is arguably outside of the original intent of the authors as long as it meets the letter of the law. Christianity says you should be nice to other people, work hard, but not too hard, and not steal, murder, or fornicate. Judaism has strict rules on what can and cannot be done on the Sabbath and strict rules on how to determine the start and end times of the Sabbath. Christianity sees the Sabbath as a principle that says, “hey, take a break once in a while!”. The point is that God doesn’t want you to nitpick over whether or not you can come up with a fancy loophole to let you fill out your TPS reports anyway and then later worry about whether putting on your shoes in the morning might be a Sabbath violation. He wants you to really step back once in a while and take a real break from whatever it is you were doing and spend some time with your family, church, etc. and study the bible, etc. What form the break takes doesn’t matter nearly as much as the fact that you are actually taking a break. It is a fact that it is the word of humans, not God! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/28 "2013-12-30T13:32:30Z")
It is a _fact_ that the Bible is not the word of God? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/29 "2013-12-30T15:41:18Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is a fact that it is the word of humans, not God! Which is not the question being addressed. And harkening back to **Alessan** ’s port earlier in the thread, OP might as well have asked why a majority of self-identified “Jewish” Americans/Israelis do NOT observe the strict Levitical/Deuteronomic rules. Reinterpretation has a longstanding legitimate standing in both religions’ mainstreams. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/30 "2013-12-30T16:55:11Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It is a fact that it is the word of humans, not God! > [@Malacandra](#): > > It is a _fact_ that the Bible is not the word of God? :dubious: **Moderator Note** If you want to discuss this, take it to Great Debates. Let’s stick to the question in the OP here. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/31 "2013-12-30T19:28:42Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > Judaism is and historically has been a non-proselytizing religion. The Jews never considered it necessary to become a Jew to be saved (they also did not have a clear understanding of salvation either). Rather, Jews were thought to be _chosen_ as an example for the gentile nations. According to Jewish theology, any monotheistic people could gain God’s favor. And (IIUC) the Jews never considered the Mosaic Law as universal (intended to be binding on all human beings everywhere). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/32 "2013-12-30T21:19:55Z")
Paul?Saul basically had a medical episode on the road to Damascus. he went off on his own, preaching a version of “Christianity” that was very much at odds with what the Jewish adherents of the cult believed in. The disicples abck in Jerusalem were particularly incensed over Paul telling diaspora Jews (and gentiles) that the Laws of Moses were superceded. In some of his epistles, Paul has some very nasty things to say about the contradictory message coming out of Jerusalem. Paul was summoned back to Jerusalem to answer for this. The compromise agreed on was that gentiles did not have to obey the laws of Moses to believe in Jesus. _What have the Romans ever done for us?_ Well, in 70AD they levelled Jerusalem and slaughtered all the inhabitants (and most of those in the surrounding countryside) including much of the original Christian church. This left Paul’s sizable communities outside Judea as the majority and his message as the source of future Christian expansion. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/33 "2013-12-30T22:33:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And (IIUC) the Jews never considered the Mosaic Law as universal (intended to be binding on all human beings everywhere). The main sentiment in Jewish religion is that all people have to adhere to the 7 [Noahide Laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_laws). The 6th one, about eating meat from an animal that was still alive when it died is variously interpreted to include, for example, no meat at all. But a pretty basic list. It does list sexuality immorality, which some, but not all, interpret to include homosexuality. An alternate take about the difference in laws between Christian and Jews is the [Dual-covenant Theology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-covenant_theology). But you’re not going to find many Christians that like that. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/34 "2013-12-31T02:09:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > he went off on his own, preaching a version of “Christianity” that was very much at odds with what the Jewish adherents of the cult believed in. The disicples abck in Jerusalem were particularly incensed over Paul telling diaspora Jews (and gentiles) that the Laws of Moses were superceded. In some of his epistles, Paul has some very nasty things to say about the contradictory message coming out of Jerusalem. Paul was summoned back to Jerusalem to answer for this. The compromise agreed on was that gentiles did not have to obey the laws of Moses to believe in Jesus. I don’t get the impression from the Biblical accounts that Paul was ever at odds with the main leaders of the Christian movement/church, only with a particular faction. My cite: [Paul’s POV as he gives it in Galatians](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians%201:11-2:16&version=NIV), and [the account of the Council of Jerusalem in Acts](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2015&version=NIV). ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/35 "2013-12-31T04:41:02Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I know it’s easy to say “Well we’re not Jewish because we believe in Christ.” I mean Christ obviously followed Jewish traditions, at least at one time. So when did it change? Why? It’s not “we’re not jewish because we believe in Christ” it’s “we’re not jewish because we never were, oh and also we happen to believe in Christ.” Two different things going on there. For the most part it’s been gentiles following Christ so of course they don’t observe traditions of an ethnic group they don’t belong to. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/36 "2013-12-31T12:19:32Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > It is a _fact_ that the Bible is not the word of God? :dubious: Our belief is based on some human’s writing and translating. I doubt that God would have a contradictory Book. We take the word of other humans. There are people today who believe God talks to them but not many take them seriously. The Roman and Orthodox declared what was of God and what was not at the Nicene Council; many writings were discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/37 "2013-12-31T16:56:23Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Our belief is based on some human’s writing and translating. I doubt that God would have a contradictory Book. We take the word of other humans. There are people today who believe God talks to them but not many take them seriously. The Roman and Orthodox declared what was of God and what was not at the Nicene Council; many writings were discarded. **Moderator Note** Please see my previous note in post #30. Let’s drop the hijack. This goes for everyone. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/38 "2013-12-31T17:44:06Z")
[Frontline on PBS is addressing this question](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/) in a series on early Christianity. The first episode repeats tonight (Dec. 31). It’s fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/39 "2013-12-31T19:55:34Z")
Paul’s version: > [@](#): > > 7 On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the uncircumcised,\*\* just as Peter had been to the circumcised Acts says: > [@](#): > > We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul Jesus was supposed to be the messiah, the King of the Jews who would throw of the yolk of the Romans and re-establish the kingdom of Israel - no different than half a dozen men before and after. Paul almost single-handedly transformed that into the som of God who died for the sins of the world and would establish a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one -open to all, not just jews. The majority of the church back in Jerusalem saw no reason to convert gentiles, they were all about having the Messiah return and create a kingdom - for Jews. The best interpretation of the meeting is the Jerusalem clique saying “fine, do whatever you wnat with the gntiles, we don’t care.” What they did care about was Jews living abroad, in Antioch, Damascus, etc. - that claimed to be adherents of Jesus the Messiah but ignored the basic tenets of Judaism with the claim that it did not matter. Heck, when the Messiah returned and they had a kingdom of Israel, full of Jews, it darn well would matter. Acts 6: a certain tension and rivalry developing: > [@](#): > > In those days when the number of disciples was increasing, the Hellenistic Jews[a] among them complained against the Hebraic Jews because their widows were being overlooked in the daily distribution of food. Acts 11: > [@](#): > > Now those who had been scattered by the persecution that broke out when Stephen was killed traveled as far as Phoenicia, Cyprus and Antioch, spreading the word only among Jews. 20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus Basically, as the diaspora Jews wer persecuted for their blasphemy and driven out of Jerusalem, they (and especially Paul) began to spread the message to gentiles too. Already these Jews were essentially urbanized greek-speakers, Hellenistic and more worldly. Being disconnected from the Jerusalem church and living among gentiles, they were less concerned about the strict rules, and less inclined to force these rules on their gentile neighbours. As I pointed out earlier, it was convenient that the jerusalem church (and temple) and the Jewish relgious power along with the central Christian congregation, were essentially wiped out and scattered. It left the Hellenist church the majority. Galatians:2 Paul does not speak kindly of the Jerusalem church. > [@](#): > > As for those who were held in high esteem—whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism—they added nothing to my message… > James, Cephas[c] and John, those esteemed as pillars, … A little bit snide in saying “so-called pillars”? In 2nd Corinthians 3 Paul refers to the Law of Moses as “…the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,…” not the equal to the new message. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/40 "2014-01-01T14:21:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > Please see my previous note in post #30. Let’s drop the hijack. This goes for everyone. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator My apologies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401.md?page=3)