# Why don't Christians follow Jewish beliefs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 29, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401 "2013-12-29T08:39:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/41 "2014-01-01T14:25:32Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Paul’s version: > Acts says: > Jesus was supposed to be the messiah, the King of the Jews who would throw of the yolk of the Romans and re-establish the kingdom of Israel - no different than half a dozen men before and after. Paul almost single-handedly transformed that into the som of God who died for the sins of the world and would establish a heavenly kingdom, not an earthly one -open to all, not just jews. > > The majority of the church back in Jerusalem saw no reason to convert gentiles, they were all about having the Messiah return and create a kingdom - for Jews. > > The best interpretation of the meeting is the Jerusalem clique saying “fine, do whatever you wnat with the gntiles, we don’t care.” What they did care about was Jews living abroad, in Antioch, Damascus, etc. - that claimed to be adherents of Jesus the Messiah but ignored the basic tenets of Judaism with the claim that it did not matter. Heck, when the Messiah returned and they had a kingdom of Israel, full of Jews, it darn well would matter. > > Acts 6: a certain tension and rivalry developing: > > Acts 11: > Basically, as the diaspora Jews wer persecuted for their blasphemy and driven out of Jerusalem, they (and especially Paul) began to spread the message to gentiles too. Already these Jews were essentially urbanized greek-speakers, Hellenistic and more worldly. Being disconnected from the Jerusalem church and living among gentiles, they were less concerned about the strict rules, and less inclined to force these rules on their gentile neighbours. > > As I pointed out earlier, it was convenient that the jerusalem church (and temple) and the Jewish relgious power along with the central Christian congregation, were essentially wiped out and scattered. It left the Hellenist church the majority. > > Galatians:2 Paul does not speak kindly of the Jerusalem church. > A little bit snide in saying “so-called pillars”? > > In 2nd Corinthians 3 Paul refers to the Law of Moses as “…the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone,…” not the equal to the new message. I also saw that in John 10, Jesus says Your Law, Not God’s I hope this is not off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/42 "2014-01-01T15:18:28Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I also saw that in John 10, Jesus says Your Law, Not God’s > > I hope this is not off topic. John is particularly late, and by his time (kind of circular here), by him, the Jews were harshly identified as absolutely separate and as enemies. Their sin would never be erased. It has been called, when looked at this way, the most pernicious and founding document of Jew-hatred in the West. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/43 "2014-01-01T19:17:55Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > It has been called, when looked at this way, the most pernicious and founding document of Jew-hatred in the West. **Moderator Note** **Leo Bloom** , in the interest of keeping this thread on track, let’s refrain from remarks like this. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/44 "2014-01-01T19:37:20Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Jesus was supposed to be the messiah, the King of the Jews who would throw of the yolk of the Romans and re-establish the kingdom of Israel Well, he sure laid an egg on that one. But you make an excellent point. All of the prophecies that Matthew labored so hard to find (or invent) were supposed to establish Jesus’ bona fides as the Messiah, not as the Son of God, let alone some aspect of God himself. Seems like if he couldn’t get the small stuff done, he should be ineligible to run for King of the Universe. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/45 "2014-01-01T19:57:31Z")
The point I was trying to make before my edit window expired is that maybe the early Christian leaders started de-emphasizing the Jewish aspects of their faith because Jesus hadn’t done anything the Messiah was supposed to do (except maybe suffer, but there was no shortage of people who could do that), and it seemed less and less likely that he would be returning soon to rectify that situation. Then again, they did choose Matthew for their canon, so as usual, I’m totally confused. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/46 "2014-01-02T10:23:27Z")
Interesting. Impressive idea, pretty radical notion back then, if true, right? Did you come up with the interpretation, or are you working off of someone(s)? / not sarcasm this entire post, and it’s a drag I have to write that, but I’ve been snarky before so I have to ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/47 "2014-01-02T10:26:11Z")
Wonder how the fall of the Temple factors into this. ---
**Author:** ![Einstein\_was\_a\_Hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e99b99/32.png) [@Einstein\_was\_a\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einstein_was_a_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/48 "2014-01-02T10:34:15Z")
Depends on what you deem as being “Jewish beliefs”…if you are talking about the Law of Moses, it is because the Law was originally designed as a blueprint to right standing, or “righteousness”, with God. But when Jesus came along, he fulfilled all the requirements of the Law, which no human being had ever done to that point, nor ever would be able to do, and created a “New Covenant” in which all you had to do to obtain right standing with God was trust in the sacrifice of Jesus to make you righteous. Too many people consider that way to easy to get in good with the Big Guy but that’s the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/49 "2014-01-02T10:47:43Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > The point I was trying to make before my edit window expired is that maybe the early Christian leaders started de-emphasizing the Jewish aspects of their faith because Jesus hadn’t done anything the Messiah was supposed to do (except maybe suffer, but there was no shortage of people who could do that), and it seemed less and less likely that he would be returning soon to rectify that situation. Possibly, but then again Jesus himself taught stuff that was 180° from previous Jewish law and he himself underlined the fact that yup, shit got done changed up, starting now. E.g. “You may have been told an eye for an eye, but I tell you to turn the other cheek instead” (Matthew 5:38-39, paraphrased). A propos of nothing, while researching the exact chapter and verse of the previous J-quote I also happened to learn that, apparently, well-informed sources state that calling someone an idiot is a ticket straight to hellfire (Matthew 5:22). I guess that’s why we call it The Pit, huh ? ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/50 "2014-01-02T16:46:14Z")
Are any of you watching the Frontline documentary on the early church? I’d be interested to know if you think they’re getting it right. It discusses everything you’ve been talking about. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/51 "2014-01-04T17:22:33Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > All so when he stopped the stoning of the prostitute! He also called the Torah ;“Your Law”, not God’s There was never a stoning of a prostitute… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/52 "2014-01-04T18:46:57Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > There was never a stoning of a prostitute… :dubious: It was “a woman taken in adultery,” but I think the point stands. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401/53 "2014-01-04T20:11:21Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well, he sure laid an egg on that one. > > But you make an excellent point. All of the prophecies that Matthew labored so hard to find (or invent) were supposed to establish Jesus’ bona fides as the Messiah, not as the Son of God, let alone some aspect of God himself. Seems like if he couldn’t get the small stuff done, he should be ineligible to run for King of the Universe. Read Aslan’s recent book “Zealot”. There were a plethora of messiahs wandering the Jewish countryside. A new one popped up every few years. Most were bandits/guerilla fighters, seeking to throw off the latest occupiers, the Romans, in the tradition of liberation from oppressors going back to Babylonian times and before. Jesus learned at the feet of John the Baptist, probably more mystical than guerilla-like. He wandered down the valley from Galilee then up to Jerusalem, gathering followers and preaching. He entered Jerusalem in triumph to cheering crowds, scaring the pants (if they had them) off the Temple hierarchy. He then proceeded to trash the commercial aspects of the temple, overturning the trading tables, releasing the offering animals, basically sowing chaos and disrupting cozy arrangements that kept the high priests in riches and influence. As a result, they accused him of being a pretender to the throne of David, and had him executed as a seditionist by the Romans. I kind of disagree with Aslan’s premise to some extent. He must have been different from various preachers like John, and very different from the purely guerilla messiahs before him, if his followers spent the next decades hanging around the temple, preaching his message and waiting for his return. (And were somewhat tolerated for doing so). > [@TonySinclair](#): > > The point I was trying to make before my edit window expired is that maybe the early Christian leaders started de-emphasizing the Jewish aspects of their faith because Jesus hadn’t done anything the Messiah was supposed to do (except maybe suffer, but there was no shortage of people who could do that), and it seemed less and less likely that he would be returning soon to rectify that situation. > > Then again, they did choose Matthew for their canon, so as usual, I’m totally confused. The point too is that Paul made up a completely different message about Jesus and his preachings; then got into a major huff with the official keepers of the truth back in Jerusalem - and was told to keep his message to gentiles, not to corrupt Jews with it. Fortunately for him there were a LOT more gentiles, and the Jewish side of the church suffered a major blow with the destruction of Jerusalem. A lot of what we see as Christianity is Paul’s concoction, later redacted and spliced into the existing gospels to make them agree with orthodoxy of later church. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-follow-jewish-beliefs/677401.md?page=2)