# Why Don't Christians Think Bush and Cheney Are The Devil **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719 "2008-03-17T23:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/1 "2008-03-17T23:25:53Z")
I was looking at the news about the SC ruling on gun control today and came across the phrase “Cheny is taking a harder line than the administration”. It just made me realize again that on every policy for which Jesus would really care, Bush and Cheney are on the opposite side. Even if I don’t agree with them, I can see why conservatives support the 2nd Amendment, want a militaristic foreign policy, and support big business. But why aren’t Christians ™ upset with the administration and it’s stance on healthcare, welfare, guns, war, and the environment? Jesus kicked the money lenders out of the temple and comforted the sick. He didn’t go around making life easier for the powerful, starting wars, and pissing on the downtrodden. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/2 "2008-03-17T23:40:22Z")
I’d think this should be obvious; it’s all about social conservatism. Much western religion has built itself around what it opposes more than what it promotes, so, banning gay marriage is more important than helping the poor. Also, Bush and Cheny lie quite a lot; they and their movement are quite accostomed to spinning things so as to play the religious right like fiddles. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/3 "2008-03-17T23:43:15Z")
Because the Republicans are on the “right” side of all the soul-saving (“truly important”) issues: thinking that two men laying together is an abomination and saving the life of a fetus. Making sure the morally poor are saved and made eternally comfortable in the after-life is more important than making sure the physically poor are saved made temporarily comfortable in this life. That’s my take. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/4 "2008-03-17T23:58:30Z")
There are plenty of Christians who have issues with Bush & Cheney. Please do not equate Christian with Right-Wing Finger-Waggin’ Fundie either. They do not represent all, or even a majority of Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/5 "2008-03-18T02:34:17Z")
Christian here. Opposing everything they stand for, as I have since since day one of their reign. Don’t think they’re the Devil, but that’s just because I think the Devil is a metaphor. But if there was a Devil, I’d think they’re him. Guess we’d better get another premise. . . ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/6 "2008-03-18T02:42:39Z")
Because Jesus did not talk about politics, he talked about man’s relationship with God and man’s relationship with man. To say that Bush’s political stances are in line/out of line with what Jesus taught is a serious misreading of the Bible. This applies both to the Pat Robertson folks as well as to the OP. Jesus didn’t care about politics. He didn’t spend his day passing out petitions so Tiberius would burn homosexuals or lobbying Herod to provide health care for poor Israelites. I agree that the Christian right isn’t applying Christian principles correctly when they try to use the Bible as a guidebook for passing laws. But left-wing Christians who try to do the same (merely using different parts of the Bible) are no better. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/7 "2008-03-18T03:00:30Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] I agree that the Christian right isn’t applying Christian principles correctly when they try to use the Bible as a guidebook for passing laws. [/QUOTE] …or subjugating others, …or denying others the right to control their own biology, …or hypocritically justifying harm or death for those they don’t like, …or attempting to diminish/deny the humanity of those deemed different, …or promotion of supremacist doctrine, …or casting blame for their own shortcomings. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/8 "2008-03-18T03:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] There are plenty of Christians who have issues with Bush & Cheney. Please do not equate Christian with Right-Wing Finger-Waggin’ Fundie either. They do not represent all, or even a majority of Christians. [/QUOTE] Certainly not all, but evangelical Christians lean heavily towards the right. [This](http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=103) site shows that white Protestants are overwhelmingly supported Bush and those who attend church most frequently supported him the most. I know there are lots of nice, peaceful Christians. Unfortunately they’re not the ones out talking about “Christian Values”. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/9 "2008-03-18T03:32:30Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] But why aren’t Christians ™ upset with the administration and it’s stance on healthcare, welfare, guns, war, and the environment? Jesus kicked the money lenders out of the temple and comforted the sick. He didn’t go around making life easier for the powerful, starting wars, and pissing on the downtrodden. [/QUOTE] I wonder how much influence the [Prosperity gospel](http://www.apologeticsindex.org/139-prosperity-teaching) has? Consider: > [@](#): > > A central tenet of the prosperity gospel is that God wills the financial prosperity of every Christian. If a believer lives in poverty, he/she is living outside God’s intended will. “You must realize that it is God’s will for you to prosper” (Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, p. 51). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/10 "2008-03-18T03:58:33Z")
Because right wing Christian theology has convinced the flock that good works are not necessary for salvation, and that by grace alone they shall be saved. Thus, there is no inconsistency in abandoning the teachings of Jesus that call them to feed the hungry, love their enemies and not resist an evil person. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/11 "2008-03-18T04:23:35Z")
Which sort of Christians ? The sort who run soup kitchens ? Or the sort that shoved Jews into gas chambers while wearing ‘Gott Mit Uns’ belt buckles ? Christians have an extremely broad range of belief, including those that Bush and Cheney would consider the Devil instead of the other way around. As has been pointed out on this board before, “Christian” is a nearly meaningless term. It tells you nothing of what people believe. There’s no particular connection between the supposed beliefs of Jesus and the beleifs of his followers. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/12 "2008-03-18T05:13:52Z")
I’m curious why you think Christians should be pro-gun control, or why you think Jesus would have been, or . . . first, what exactly are you asserting about the issue? ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/13 "2008-03-18T06:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] But why aren’t Christians ™ upset with the administration and it’s stance on healthcare, welfare, guns, war, and the environment? [/QUOTE] As far as I can tell the Bush administration has been spending money like a drunken sailor on all those things for eight years, as did the Clinton administration before it, so I can see no reason for your complaint. What’s with this Dick (Mr. Gravitas) Cheney hatred? Is he the new Karl Rove? (Not that I ever managed to work out what crimes he’s supposed to have committed). ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/14 "2008-03-18T07:40:19Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco] I’m curious why you think Christians should be pro-gun control, or why you think Jesus would have been, or . . . first, what exactly are you asserting about the issue? [/QUOTe] Maybe it’s the whole turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor thing. [Note to self, don’t post after partying for St. Patrick’s day] ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/15 "2008-03-18T12:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] Maybe it’s the whole turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor thing. [Note to self, don’t post after partying for St. Patrick’s day] [/QUOTE] How about “If you have no sword, sell your cloak and buy one”? Christians are called to seek peace, help the poor, do good to others- that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re called to disarm ourselves or forcibly redistribute wealth to others. Neither the Right nor the Left will be spared a good butt-kicking by Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/16 "2008-03-18T13:07:23Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > I’m curious why you think Christians should be pro-gun control, or why you think Jesus would have been, or . . . first, what exactly are you asserting about the issue? When the Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus in Gesthemane Peter hacked off one of their ears. Apparently they were packing for those days. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/17 "2008-03-18T13:09:00Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Christians are called to seek peace, help the poor, do good to others- that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re called to disarm ourselves or forcibly redistribute wealth to others. [/QUOTE] Well, only if you are willing to disregard large swaths of the teachings of Jesus. This is the problem with Christianity as drawn from the Gospels; every thing Jesus says is contradicted by something he says somewhere else. There is no unambiguous Christian doctrine, and Christians are free to define that term how ever they wish. Modern Christianity has been reduced to “be nice to nice people”. There is no longer any personal sacrifice to achieve salvation, no requirement for good works, just mouth the magic words, and _poof_, eternal life. By so watering down and rationalizing the words of Jesus, Christians has destroyed Christianity as a moral force for change. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/18 "2008-03-18T14:35:42Z")
Or perhaps the moral problems of life are too complex for simplistic answers. > [@](#): > > Well, only if you are willing to disregard large swaths of the teachings of Jesus. Could you cite the passage from the Gospels where Jesus says the government should redistribute wealth, or protect the environment? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/19 "2008-03-18T15:29:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Or perhaps the moral problems of life are too complex for simplistic answers. Could you cite the passage from the Gospels where Jesus says the government should redistribute wealth, or protect the environment? Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] The only one that pops to mind is “Render unto Caesar..”, but that doesn’t really apply in this case, as it was an admonishment to pay your taxes, not an endorsement of how the tax money is spent (although if you’re going to stretch things to imply that it is, remember that the Romans spent very little if anything on health care and the environment, and a lot on wars of conquest and expansion. Maybe these Christians you’re condemning in the OP have the right of it after all 😛 ) In that vein, I think that the forcible redistribution of wealth is very much counter to the teachings of Jesus. He preached that one should help the less fortunate, true, but it should be the voluntary decision of each individual to do this, which would not only benefit the poor but would improve the giver morally. By and large conservative Christians DO do this, remember the outraged howls from the left last year when studies revealed that conservatives gave more than liberals to charities? Forcing money from someone at gun (or gladius) point and then using it however a bureaucracy sees fit (even if it does wind up in the hands of the less fortunate) changes what is an act of charity and compassion to something that is neither. The poor may be helped, but the person who supplied the money is not enriched spiritually at all. As I read the teachings of Jesus, the later part is just as important as the former. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719/20 "2008-03-18T16:27:21Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Could you cite the passage from the Gospels where Jesus says the government should redistribute wealth, or protect the environment? [/QUOTE] Could you cite the portion of **FriarTed’s** post that says the government should not? I was responding to his post about the responsibilities of Christians, not that of government. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-christians-think-bush-and-cheney-are-the-devil/441719.md?page=2)