# Why don't FLDS men just wait until the girls are 18?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 18, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896 "2008-04-18T14:50:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/41 "2008-04-18T22:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=vison]
If “the authorities” want to protect the children in these cults, they should not remove the children. They should leave the children with their mothers. The trauma and pain experienced by these kids must be terrible!
[/QUOTE]
You’re missing the fact that the mothers are also alleged to have assisted in the abuse.
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### Author:  [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/42 "2008-04-18T22:38:09Z")
Likely another reason is that it makes them feel young again themselves.
Scary thing is that I bet if the concept of child brides was a central tenet of Christ’s teachings there’d likely be no laws against it in this country save for something to the effect of some kind of ‘must be menstrating’ clause which can occur in very young girls.
Besides, it’s all cultural. You believe what you’ve been brought up to believe. And it’s natural to look at the opposing viewpoint as alien and weird from whatever narrow perspective you happen to hold.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/43 "2008-04-18T23:10:27Z")
[QUOTE=Euthanasiast]
Likely another reason is that it makes them feel young again themselves.
[/QUOTE]
There’s a line in one of the _Law & Order_ episodes: “He wanted to relive his youth by sleeping with one.”
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/44 "2008-04-18T23:24:34Z")
[QUOTE=Monty]
There’s a line in one of the _Law & Order_ episodes: “He wanted to relive his youth by sleeping with one.”
[/QUOTE]
Now, see, that would just make me feel _old_. I still don’t get it.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/45 "2008-04-18T23:27:15Z")
[QUOTE=Cisco]
Pedophiles are attracted to prepubescents. Fifteen year old girls are physically mature. They are statutory rapists.
[/QUOTE]
Define physically mature. At fifteen I was 7" shorter, had only begun to get my period six months earlier, and was 2 cup sizes smaller than now. Does that fit your definition of physically mature?
Granted, I was a late bloomer, but so are a lot of girls. \*\*If \*\* either of the often suggested dietary reasons for early puberty (either hormones in food, or a tendency for girls to be heavier younger due to sedentary lifestyles) are correct, it’s likely that more of their girls are later to mature than is typical too since they raise their own food and work hard.
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### Author:  [@fram40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fram40)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/46 "2008-04-18T23:39:26Z")
If this thread is going to distinguish correctly between pedophilia and statutory rape, we should also distinguish between polygamy ( many men and many women) and polygyny (one man many women)
This selt practices is polygyny
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/47 "2008-04-18T23:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
You’re right, I didn’t mean to sound harsh towards the women- its totally ‘not their fault’, and I feel sorry for them, but still, to hear the one red head talking on Larry King about how she has paradise on earth was seriously creepy.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I agree with you 100% there. That was incredibly disturbing. Scary, even.
It seems they were taught that the outside world is Hell, and yet, they were almost all on welfare. IIRC, weren’t many of them married to uncles and cousins?
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### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/48 "2008-04-19T00:16:21Z")
[QUOTE=burundi]
I agree with you. It’s a sick, fucked-up system. But I’m wondering how they justify it to themselves and to the women and children around them.
Your answers make sense to me, **Anaamika**. I’m wondering if, in addition to those reasons, there’s some kind of “spiritual” rationale they give.
[/QUOTE]
You are assuming an awful lot. For the vast majority of human history, females got pregnant in their early teens. Until very recently, it was common for females to get married after they reached puberty. It is only a “sick, fucked-up system” because of assumptions we make in modern Western society.
We have outlawed natural sexuality.
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/49 "2008-04-19T00:35:01Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus]
Jesus was big on kids (not like that!) and I’m sure it’s a similar idea here.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know about that. The “disciple Jesus’ loved” was about 15, wasn’t he?
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### Author:  [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/50 "2008-04-19T01:29:44Z")
> [@Two and a Half Inches](#):
>
> We have outlawed natural sexuality.
Maybe, but I would argue our attitudes toward sexuality are better than “natural”. We emphasize individual choice. The “natural” way is sexual slavery. We may be apelike, but we’re not apes. We’re post-enlightenment humans.
Still, though, I believe consenting adults should be able to choose whatever sexual relationship they want. The problem is that these kids can’t give meaningful consent.
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### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/51 "2008-04-19T01:39:23Z")
[QUOTE=vibrotronica]
Maybe, but I would argue our attitudes toward sexuality are better than “natural”. We emphasize individual choice. The “natural” way is sexual slavery. We may be apelike, but we’re not apes. We’re post-enlightenment humans.
Still, though, I believe consenting adults should be able to choose whatever sexual relationship they want. The problem is that these kids can’t give meaningful consent.
[/QUOTE]
How do you define better? Is it a moral definition?
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### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/52 "2008-04-19T03:00:43Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
How do you define better? Is it a moral definition?
[/QUOTE]
No. Grey matter + evolution.
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### Author:  [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/53 "2008-04-19T03:28:15Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
You are assuming an awful lot. For the vast majority of human history, females got pregnant in their early teens. Until very recently, it was common for females to get married after they reached puberty.
[/QUOTE]
I used to be a professional genealogist, and dealt all the time with marriage records from the U.S. and Britain going back to the early 19th century. And I can say: the incidence of teen marriages in the 19th and early 20th century has been greatly exaggerated in modern belief. It was very rare that I found a girl marrying before 16, and uncommon before the age of 18.
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/54 "2008-04-19T03:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
You are assuming an awful lot. For the vast majority of human history, females got pregnant in their early teens
[/QUOTE]
Please narrow down “vast majority of human history”.
I read an article about a 1962 publication by a J.M. Tanner:
> [@](#):
>
> Tanner first described the secular trend in 1962. [“Secular” means occurring through the centuries.]
>
> According to Tanner, the average age of menarche dropped from about 17 to 12.8 during the period 1830-1962. The rate of decline was 4 months per decade.
>
> Tanner has also noticed a decline in the age of initiation of the growth spurt. The trend seems to have stopped, with the age of menarche leveling off at 12.6.
The article gave the following for reference:
**Tanner, J.M.** _Growth at adolescence, with a general consideration of the effects of hereditary and environmental factors upon growth and maturation from birth to maturity._ Oxford: Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1962.
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### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/55 "2008-04-19T03:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon]
I used to be a professional genealogist, and dealt all the time with marriage records from the U.S. and Britain going back to the early 19th century. And I can say: the incidence of teen marriages in the 19th and early 20th century has been greatly exaggerated in modern belief. It was very rare that I found a girl marrying before 16, and uncommon before the age of 18.
[/QUOTE]
What percentage of human history is represented by the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries? The Homo genius has been around about 2.5 million years - Homo sapiens about 200,000 years. The entirety of post-agriculture society is only a small part of human history.
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/56 "2008-04-19T03:52:09Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
What percentage of human history is represented by the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries? The Homo genius has been around about 2.5 million years - Homo sapiens about 200,000 years. The entirety of post-agriculture society is only a small part of human history.
[/QUOTE]
So, supposing Mr. Tanner was correct, then that age was 17 years in 1830. So wouldn’t it have been at least that before post-agricultural?
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### Author:  [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/57 "2008-04-19T04:00:12Z")
[QUOTE=NinetyWt]
So, supposing Mr. Tanner was correct, then that age was 17 years in 1830. So wouldn’t it have been at least that before post-agricultural?
[/QUOTE]
I fucked that up.
The entirety of human history after the development of agriculture is only a small part of the total of human history.
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### Author:  [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/58 "2008-04-19T04:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=Monty]
You’re missing the fact that the mothers are also alleged to have assisted in the abuse.
[/QUOTE]
There wouldn’t be any abuse to assist in if the men were gone.
I doubt that the women think they are assisting at abuse, anyway. They’re doing what they are made to do. The men might say the same thing, of course. But somehow, I don’t grant much slack to a 50 year-old man who “marries” a 14 year-old girl. Or an 18 year-old, for that matter.
The whole thing stinks from the getgo. But taking the kids from their homes and placing them with strangers isn’t going to do much good. I think their mums could look after them just fine, if the abusive men weren’t there.
Set up re-education camps. Make them read something uplifting. Have some shiny new Burdizzos on the warden’s desk just in case the re-education doesn’t take.
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### Author:  [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/59 "2008-04-19T04:34:21Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I fucked that up.
[/QUOTE]
I think I understood you correctly both times. You point was that the post-agrarian culture is small compared with the entirety of human experience, yes?
My point was that the ‘age of onset of menarche’ was at least 17 years before then, according to some people. So they couldn’t have been ‘pregnant in their early teens’.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-flds-men-just-wait-until-the-girls-are-18/445896/60 "2008-04-19T04:39:52Z")
I’ll give the op question a shot. Take someone who is deeply religious and also likes little girls. If the 2 are in conflict than just reinvent the religion. Problem solved.
Looking at 19th century communes I am reminded of the Oneida Commune where they had free love and the adults (both men and women) taught their younger generation how to have sex (age 14). They used post-menopausal women to screw the boys so they wouldn’t get pregnant in the process. The boys were taught not to ejaculate which was part of their belief system (no it didn’t stop children from popping up).
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