# Why Don't Islamic Terrorists use "Mules"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962 "2006-08-16T16:15:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/1 "2006-08-16T16:15:00Z")
Instead of using fanactics who want to die? Using a mule (a person who thinks he’s doing something else0 would solve a lot of problems. Yet, Al-Quedah seems to prefer the young and disaffected to carry out its work. It would make it easier for them, if they were to say, interview a western journalist, then put and explosive fevice in his laptop or luggage. he/she gets on a plane, and the bomb is detonated by remote control. i fear that they will start using such people. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/2 "2006-08-16T16:21:48Z")
It’s been attempted at least once: [Nizar Hindawi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Hindawi) tried to put his pregnant fiancee Anne Murphy on an El Al plane with explosives in her suitcase. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/3 "2006-08-16T16:33:34Z")
Perhaps they actually believe in the heaven, and want their people to go to heaven, and that unintentional martyrhood is not as good a path as intentional? Or, perhaps they think that recruitment would be better served by the families and friends of the suicide bombers knowing that the bomber went to his death willingly and happily and for a cause he believed in than by thinking that these leaders murdered a guy who had no clue what was about to happen to him? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/4 "2006-08-16T16:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] It’s been attempted at least once: [Nizar Hindawi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizar_Hindawi) tried to put his pregnant fiancee Anne Murphy on an El Al plane with explosives in her suitcase. [/QUOTE] Yep these guys sure are loving bastards :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_McCello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Alistair\_McCello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alistair_McCello)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/5 "2006-08-16T17:12:22Z")
I am not going to be able to pull detail out from memory but I know that in my terrorism class there were several cases mentioned where they did just this. I think it was in Iraq where a person would be abducted while stopped on the road and held just long enough for the terrorists in question to attach an explosive device to the car. The abductee would then be released and told to drive to a certain location to be picked up by the authorities, when the ‘mule’ arrives at the target… boom. The most gut-wrenching example I can think of where this was the tactic used by a terrorist group in I believe Turkey, though for the life of me I can’t recall which one. The general idea of what they was this: kidnapp an entire family, force the youngest woman in the family to strap a bomb to herself, tell her to go to a specific location or else they will torture/kill her family members, then blow her, and the target up. I hate posting these without cites, and I am trying to track down some specifics. None the less, while it does not happen as much as you might think, it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/6 "2006-08-16T17:28:06Z")
It doesn’t seem to be that difficult to find people who are _willing_ to blow themselves up, does it? Seems to me concocting an elaborate ruse is a lot more difficult and less reliable than giving minimal training to a person who knows what you’re doing and is a willing accomplice. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/7 "2006-08-16T17:48:45Z")
First off, somebody who’s an unsuspecting dupe is likely to do something inadvertently to give it all away. Your mule might, for example, try to use their laptop before getting to the airport, or at least notice that it seems to be a couple pounds heavier. And once the plot is discovered, the mule will likely be a very cooperative witness for the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/8 "2006-08-16T17:57:54Z")
Haven’t you ever been asked, “Has your luggage been out of your sight at any time?” when checking in? I’m pretty sure that this was a result of the Lockerbie bombing which, while not a mule, was probably due to an unaccompanied suitcase. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/9 "2006-08-16T18:20:27Z")
[QUOTE=Loopydude] It doesn’t seem to be that difficult to find people who are _willing_ to blow themselves up, does it? [/quote] Can’t be that much different than finding people who are willing to fight and die in a war for their country/cause/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/10 "2006-08-16T18:33:15Z")
rjung: > [@](#): > > Can’t be that much different than finding people who are willing to fight and die in a war for their country/cause/whatever. Yes it can. Soldiers who enlist in combat are willing to _risk_ dying. Suicide bombers are going to _certain_ death. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/11 "2006-08-16T18:58:16Z")
[Bill Maher] Did I pack my own bags? My bags were packed by ALLAH, what’s it to you? Can I just get on the plane now? [/Bill Maher] ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/12 "2006-08-16T19:15:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Soldiers who enlist in combat are willing to risk dying. Suicide bombers are going to certain death. It’s not everyone’s goal to live as long as they can. That’s a cultural construct. In more fatalistic cultures, when you die is in [insert diety here]'s hands. As noted above, if you believe that martyrdom either knocks you right into heaven or advances your cause, your own survival may be less of an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/13 "2006-08-16T23:33:09Z")
The knowing suicide bomber also has the advantage that he or she is a targeted missile as opposed to an unguided one. You can put a bomb on the person of a tourist and HOPE that he or she goes to the Washington Monument, but you might wind up just blowing up a hot dog stand. A suicide bomber will go to the Washington Monument, head for the place where the bomb will kill the most people, and blow up. It’s a much surer way to hit a target. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2006, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/14 "2006-08-16T23:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=Finagle] Haven’t you ever been asked, “Has your luggage been out of your sight at any time?” when checking in? I’m pretty sure that this was a result of the Lockerbie bombing which, while not a mule, was probably due to an unaccompanied suitcase. [/QUOTE] Yeah, and they finally got rid of it about 4.5 years ago. Quite possibly the only thing the TSA and DHS has ever done that I actually agree with. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/15 "2006-08-17T00:00:36Z")
[QUOTE=asterion] Yeah, and they finally got rid of it about 4.5 years ago. Quite possibly the only thing the TSA and DHS has ever done that I actually agree with. [/QUOTE] It’s not disappeared in the UK. Or at least, IIRC, it’s morphed into something like “could anyone have interfered with your luggage?” They do still ask “Did you pack your luggage yourself?”, and a lot of this is as much to do with drug smuggling as with bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/16 "2006-08-17T01:08:06Z")
[QUOTE=Finagle] Haven’t you ever been asked, “Has your luggage been out of your sight at any time?” when checking in? I’m pretty sure that this was a result of the Lockerbie bombing which, while not a mule, was probably due to an unaccompanied suitcase. [/QUOTE] I always have to struggle not to answer that question as literally as possible. “Well, I couldn’t actually see it while it was in the trunk of my car on the way to the airport. And as I was walking across the terminal, my luggage was out of my sight. I was holding it in my hand while I was looking for the right airline. And I can’t see it right now, because it’s on the scale, and I’m looking at you, not it.” However, not being a big fan of body cavity searches, I’ve so far been able to stiffle the impulse. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/17 "2006-08-17T02:33:26Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] **Why Don’t Islamic Terrorists use “Mules”?** [/QUOTE] How do you know they don’t? It’s not like “suicide bombers” are available for questioning afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/18 "2006-08-17T04:24:40Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Instead of using fanactics who want to die? Using a mule (a person who thinks he’s doing something else0 would solve a lot of problems. Yet, Al-Quedah seems to prefer the young and disaffected to carry out its work. It would make it easier for them, if they were to say, interview a western journalist, then put and explosive fevice in his laptop or luggage. he/she gets on a plane, and the bomb is detonated by remote control. i fear that they will start using such people. [/QUOTE] Drug “Mules” are generally aware of what they are doing. They are just poor and desperate (the typical thing custom agents look out for is a guy in smart business suit who has clearly never worn a business suit in his life), and completely expendable from the point of view of the people who send them. In this respect the already use mules all the time (except in the “poor and desparate” sense, sucide bombers are generally middle class). There are cases of unwitting drug mules but I don’t beleive ther were ever particularly common, and presumably nowadays (when everyone is aware of what a bad idea taking packages for other people) even rarer. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/19 "2006-08-17T11:52:29Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How do you know they don’t? It’s not like “suicide bombers” are available for questioning afterwards. [/QUOTE] Not disagreeing with you on \*all \*suicide bombers, but many of them do leave martyrdom videos and the like beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962/20 "2006-08-17T13:11:54Z")
[QUOTE=Alistair McCello] I am not going to be able to pull detail out from memory but I know that in my terrorism class… [/QUOTE] You did a terrorism class!? :eek: you’d think the FBI would be onto that… 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-islamic-terrorists-use-mules/368962.md?page=2)