# Why don't liberals and Democrats fully embrace atheism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 13, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421 "2021-07-13T20:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/183 "2021-07-16T23:23:53Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > (I note 24% of Saudis seem to be atheists. I have never seen anyone punished for it.) [-=Linky=-](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-atheist-countries) > > As for atheism in European countries we have to admit that surveys probably cannot give us perfect numbers. Nonetheless, some figures for “nonreligious” people are: > > China 90% claim to be non-religious. Imagine that. Oddly enough, the text says that 49% of China claims to be atheist, not 90%, but if you add those who practice Confucianism you might get there. (Not enough data.) Doesn’t have Burma or Sri Lanka, it would be interesting to see if they consider Buddhists as atheists. Have you ever read The God Delusion? Yes, Dawkins says (and supports) the contention that belief in god is delusional. But atheists in general are very careful to distinguish believing in something that is not supported by evidence to being insane. That would include what you would no doubt consider rabid atheist shows. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/184 "2021-07-16T23:28:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you have any evidence that this is “fashionable”? The vast majority of “Europeans” are not atheist. My daughter taught in southern Germany for a year, at a public school. On one hand all the students pretty much went to church inside the school, on the other that was from there being state religions and on the average they were far less religious than we are in the US. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/185 "2021-07-16T23:36:06Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My daughter taught in southern Germany for a year, at a public school. On one hand all the students pretty much went to church inside the school, on the other that was from there being state religions and on the average they were far less religious than we are in the US. There never has been a state religion in Germany. Now, the relations between the German state and the two biggest denominations, Catholic and Protestant (Lutheran), are complicated and unusual, but I repeat: there never was a state religion in Germany. Which should that be anyway, Catholic or Protestant? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/186 "2021-07-17T02:44:53Z")
There is that weird church tax where the German government actually withholds tithes from your paycheck and distributes it to whatever church (if any) you are affiliated with. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/187 "2021-07-18T00:09:49Z")
Which means you have to declare a religion. Must be like that in England also, remember the controversy about whether Jedis could be a religion for this purpose? > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > There never has been a state religion in Germany. Now, the relations between the German state and the two biggest denominations, Catholic and Protestant (Lutheran), are complicated and unusual, but I repeat: there never was a state religion in Germany. Which should that be anyway, Catholic or Protestant? It would be at a regional level. In the US, religious services in a school would imply a state religion - and would be unconstitutional. I understand about Catholic and Protestant - my daughter’s school had both Catholic and Lutheran holidays off, a win for her. And I’m pretty sure there were in-school services for both. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/188 "2021-07-18T00:15:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It would be at a regional level. In the US, religious services in a school would imply a state religion - and would be unconstitutional. Yeah, I know that is a difference between the US and Germany, but doesn’t mean that we have a state religion. It’s just a local quirk, and it’s also not ubiquitous for all schools. When I was at school, we had school mass every Wednesday at 8 AM, but it was not obligatory. Most times, I either slept longer or went to one of the cafés in town, which were always crowded with students at the time of school mass. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/189 "2021-07-18T00:37:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > liberalism’s substance fully reflects what you would expect of atheism… Sorry to hijack this all the way back to the first post, but I’m so sick of reading the title of this thread. It should be enough to set off some sort of big red “ **Ignorance Not Yet Fought** ” flashing light. Is that honestly what you (and others?) really think? That Democrats are Atheists and Republicans are Christians? You keep trying to hedge, but that’s what many of your posts boil down to. I became a Christian and a _flaming libtard_ by reading the Bible, and seeing how much Jesus talked about the abuses of power, the equality of all, and and how society treats women, immigrants, and the poor. Where do leftie pro-choice Christians fit into your overly simplistic world view? I wish this were in the Pit, so I could say ƒuck this attitude. But my attitude’s crap right now, too… thanks in part to seeing this thread title every hour or so. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/190 "2021-07-18T02:39:52Z")
Not that I mind, but I think you misclicked somewhere, shows (on my system at least) you responding to me rather than @Velocity, the OP. But it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/191 "2021-07-18T06:35:46Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Wonder if the OP is ever gonna come back to say, “Yeah, that really was a crap-ass thread starter, wasn’t it? Sorry.” Still waiting for @Velocity to own up to this. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/192 "2021-07-18T07:38:56Z")
Hehe, as an atheist who wouldn’t venture into politics for a variety of reasons: even if Democrats were the ridiculous stereotype the OP presents, why would one want to volunteer ammunition to the worst elements of the other side? I’d answer if asked, but otherwise it’s irrelevant. Effective policies are strongly divorced from belief in god, in my experience. Yeah, basically you’re asking why the other side isn’t the bad stereotype that you imagine them to be. On top of that, you’re also asking why they aren’t dumber than a bag of hammers. I think the answer is pretty clear. Your stereotype is not actually applicable in any general way, and they’re not as simple and two-dimensional as you’d prefer even when it might apply. ---
**Author:** ![Franklymydear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Franklymydear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Franklymydear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/193 "2021-07-18T12:29:15Z")
I agree with everyone else that the OP is flawed in that it assumes all liberals are atheists or secret atheist. I’d also point out not all conservatives are Christians. There are factions on each side. Conservative Christians are, in my opinion, currently a disproportionally influential and loud part of the right. Rich people who don’t want to pay taxes aren’t always Church goers. Law and order/bomb the hell out of them types aren’t always church goers. Libertarian leaning republicans aren’t known for their ardent Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/194 "2021-07-18T13:05:35Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > basically you’re asking why the other side isn’t the bad stereotype that you imagine them to be. On top of that, you’re also asking why they aren’t dumber than a bag of hammers. I wonder whether the OP was hoping to get a lot of answers saying specifically that it would be stupid to do so, and giving no other reasons; so as to try to substantiate a charge of hypocrisy. Getting instead a chorus of voices saying ‘because a lot of liberals and Democrats aren’t atheists’ doesn’t fit that narrative. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/195 "2021-07-18T22:03:51Z")
I guess that’s why @Velocity never came back. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/196 "2021-07-18T22:11:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s nice. I’ve been queer my entire life, but I never told anyone until I was in my late twenties, because I was worried about how I’d be treated by the religious - specifically, Christian - majority in this country. (Which country?) Were you concerned that might pray for you? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/198 "2021-07-18T22:25:04Z")
Wow! You are really positing that in the US a queer person has nothing to fear from religious people besides that they might pray for them? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/199 "2021-07-18T22:26:33Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Were you concerned that might pray for you? I’m obviously not Miller; but my guess is that Miller was a lot more worried that they would beat them up, kick them out of their job and/or their apartment, shun them from their family, throw them out of their school, try to take their children away, etc. Any or all of which could easily have happened in the USA and a number of other places during much of my lifetime, and most of which are in some social circles still possible. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/200 "2021-07-18T22:27:33Z")
Perhaps you are reading words I did not write. I would point out that mass killings and imprisonment of Gay people in the last century or so have happened at the hands of scientific atheists. You know, modern, progressive thinkers, like in Mao’s China, Stalin’s Russia and of course Hitler’s Germany. You know; regimes that attacked religious people too. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/201 "2021-07-18T22:31:50Z")
Holy fuck. What about in America? (And good luck with the “modern” exmples. Ha. “Mao, Stalin, Hitler”. Jaysus.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/202 "2021-07-18T22:38:56Z")
I’m reading exactly what you wrote, and you know perfectly well that I am. What do Hitler, Stalin and Mao have to do with what “Christians” have been doing in the United States for the last 50 years (I assume Miller’s lifetime)? Just the usual distraction tactic. Why didn’t you drag in Chengis Khan while you were at it. Were you not sure if he was Buddhist? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/203 "2021-07-18T22:40:17Z")
Modern. Sheesh, Woodstock was over 50 years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421.md?page=11)