# Why don't liberals and Democrats fully embrace atheism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 13, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421 "2021-07-13T20:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/163 "2021-07-16T16:01:56Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > It is just a list. I thought they idea of a nation that is 90% non-religious was rather shocking, that is why I included China. I also included a note saying I found the number remarkable. Why is that remarkable? China has been a communist dictatorship for over 70 years that’s against any kind of religion and openly persecutes it, so it’s no miracle that the majority of Chinese citizens is not religiously affiliated. This is a very different political and societal situation than the European democracies getting less religious. ETA: Btw. what gave you the impression that I was upset? I just wanted to set some misconceptions straight. That’s what we do here on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/164 "2021-07-16T16:16:58Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > I have been out as a Christian all my life. I have no idea what you are trying to say. That’s nice. I’ve been queer my entire life, but I never told anyone until I was in my late twenties, because I was worried about how I’d be treated by the religious - specifically, Christian - majority in this country. But I’m sure Richard Dawkins writing a book was very tough on you. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/165 "2021-07-16T16:32:38Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > The last time Europeans were attacking the religious it ended with many, many tears Are you referring to the Holocaust? I cannot figure out what else you could mean. If so, the Holocaust had fuck all to do with ‘being religious’. People were labeled Jews based on heritage NOT religious belief or practice. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/166 "2021-07-16T17:06:10Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > As for atheism in European countries we have to admit that surveys probably cannot give us perfect numbers. Nonetheless, some figures for “nonreligious” people are: Once again, “nonreligious” does not mean atheist. ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/167 "2021-07-16T17:10:53Z")
I’m an atheist and liberal. I have to say no to the idea. A political movement consisting solely of atheists would be regarded as intolerant. “We don’t want any Christians here” would not sell well in the US. Liberalism should welcome atheists, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, etc. It shouldn’t welcome jerks (including religious people who hate people outside their religion). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/168 "2021-07-16T21:28:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > As we noted in this thread, people hating atheists for their lack of faith is common, though not new. Do you have any examples of people hating other religions being fashionable again? Because I haven’t seen anything like that. Attend your next city council meeting and propose the building of a mosque. See how that goes. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/169 "2021-07-16T21:34:05Z")
Is that directed at **Babale** only? Because if I did that, the only thing noteworthy would be ‘Why is the weird Jewish guy proposing building a mosque?’ Last time I checked, Philly had its fair share of mosques and hallal grocers and restaurants are easy to find. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/170 "2021-07-16T21:36:02Z")
Yeah, looking up “mosques near me” shows like 30 results within 10 miles. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/171 "2021-07-16T21:37:10Z")
I’m sure you could find lots of anti-Muslim discrimination if you looked in the US but it would be coming far less from left wing atheists and far more from right wing Christians. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/172 "2021-07-16T21:37:22Z")
Babale was looking for an example of the fashionability of hating other religions. Sure, in populous, diverse, typically Democratic cities objections to mosque building are fewer. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/173 "2021-07-16T21:38:41Z")
Fair, but in context I was looking for examples of atheists or even secular people who oppose religion, not members of one religion who oppose another religion. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/174 "2021-07-16T21:40:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m sure you could find lots of anti-Muslim discrimination if you looked in the US but it would be coming far less from left wing atheists and far more from right wing Christians. When you said > [@Babale](#): > > Do you have any examples of people hating other religions being fashionable again? Because I haven’t seen anything like that. You didn’t specifically exclude right wing Christians. Is there a reason Islamophobia from them doesn’t count as anti-Muslim discrimination? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/175 "2021-07-16T21:47:12Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > You didn’t specifically exclude right wing Christians. Is there a reason Islamophobia from them doesn’t count as anti-Muslim discrimination? Because that post was made as part of a larger conversation where the example of someone who discriminates against religion in a ‘fashionable’ way was Dawkins, and this is a thread about atheists. There isn’t some “gotcha” here, you’re just reading one post out of context. If it makes you feel better, I’ll go on the record and confirm that Christian discrimination against Muslims is every bit as serious a problem as any other kind of discrimination against a minority group. It’s just off topic for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/176 "2021-07-16T21:53:21Z")
Now that you’ve explained, I don’t doubt that was what you intended and I regret calling it out but here’s the context and I have no idea how anyone would know you were only talking about atheists. > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > It is remarkable to me that people conflate religious and political tendencies. There are acres of liberal and conservative people of all religious stripes. A quick read of the newspapers, a glance at the world around us shows this to be true. > > But of course hating people based on their religious beliefs is fashionable again. Very often in the past this particular form of bigotry has turned out very badly indeed. > > But of course this time is different. This time, hatred of the religious is based on hard facts and sure science. > > P J O’Rourke pointed out that “This time is different” is the never-ending cry of the con man. > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > > > But of course hating people based on their religious beliefs is fashionable again. Very often in the past this particular form of bigotry has turned out very badly indeed. > > As we noted in this thread, people hating atheists for their lack of faith is common, though not new. Do you have any examples of people hating other religions being fashionable again? Because I haven’t seen anything like that. I also think you’re wrong about some atheists not hating Islam and other religions. You might want to look into Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/177 "2021-07-16T21:58:54Z")
Perhaps, you could read this thread? or any of a good number of other threads? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/178 "2021-07-16T21:59:05Z")
Yeah, members of the Satanic Church of Arkansas (and let’s be honest, they don’t believe in Satan as a literal deity and Arkansas is generally unfriendly to non-Christians and most non-evangelicals come to that), have had a grand time suing for equal tolerance for all religions, not suppression of any of them. Their only problem with the 10 Commandments monument was other religions, including theirs, weren’t allowed equal access to put up their own monuments and they thought all should be allowed or none. Real intolerant jerks, those Satanists. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/179 "2021-07-16T21:59:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Perhaps, you could read this thread? or any of a good number of other threads? I have, and I didn’t see any evidence to the claim that atheistic hating on religion is now “fashionable”. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/180 "2021-07-16T22:00:10Z")
Perhaps YOU could read this thread. It doesn’t seem like you have. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/181 "2021-07-16T22:56:43Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Last time I checked, Philly had its fair share of mosques and hallal grocers and restaurants are easy to find. Same here in Brooklyn. There are several within walking distance of where I live. I actually don’t know exactly how many. I can think of three off the top of my head. And I know the newest one (which is also the biggest one, at least in terms of size – I don’t know how big the congregation is) was built post-2001. In New York City, without a murmur of opposition (that I’m aware of, and I try to stay abreast of local affairs). And halal restaurants and grocery stores are all over the place, including the ubiquitous halal food carts. Everyone loves them, cheap lunch and dinner, all over the place in midtown Manhattan, serving the office workers. ---
**Author:** ![Franklymydear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Franklymydear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Franklymydear)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421/182 "2021-07-16T23:13:28Z")
As an atheist, i do wish everyone give up on the whole “god” thing. But i do live in a rather liberal area and almost every church i go by has “all are welcome” rainbow signs, “black lives matter”, “refuges and immigrants welcome” signs. Not really a fan of Christians or Muslims or Hindus or etc, but i do think sometimes they all get lumped into one group. Not every Christian is a right wing nut job. some religious people actually believe you should “do unto others…”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-liberals-and-democrats-fully-embrace-atheism/946421.md?page=10)