# Why don't more people recognize that "To Kill a Mockingbird" is white apologist crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902 "2018-09-25T18:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/21 "2018-09-25T22:25:04Z")
There was also the near-lynching scene at the jail, where the mob confronts Atticus and demands he step aside so they can get their hands on Tom Robinson. Atticus refuses and things are about to get ugly when Scout inserts herself. She is confused to see that this gang bent on murder is made up of people she knows and likes - ordinary people, to her. Things are tense, the outcome hangs in the balance for a moment, and then the mob backs off. That scene clearly shows the potential for normal upstanding citizens for violence and hatred, and how close mob mentality is to the surface. Even if the “happy” ending to that scene was uncommon in real life, it’s not exactly a flattering portrait of white citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/22 "2018-09-25T22:57:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree that the novel depicted racism as a much lesser problem than it was in reality. > > The novel suggested that racism was something that only a handful of low-class white people were involved in and the majority of good white people disapproved of it. Which is nonsense; if the majority of white people had really disapproved of racism, it wouldn’t have been allowed to exist. > > The real attitude seems to have been the majority of white people supported racism. They just didn’t want to get their hand dirty. They regarded racism the way they regarded manual labor; a unpleasant necessity that was best handled by poor people. I don’t believe that “supporting racism” is a possible way for a non-racist person to behave. It would be less of a modern 2018-style whitewash, if you had simply said “the majority of white people were racist”. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/23 "2018-09-25T23:10:23Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I concur. The function of TKAM is to give Nice White Person a white person they can identify with–we can watch it and feel like we’d have been Atticus. I would never argue with someone who viewed TKAM as you or the OP, because you’re right. But on the other hand, isn’t art that is inspirational, that paints the world as we wish it would be, a valuable thing? Isn’t it good thing that there’s a beloved character, who does basically good things, who stands up for what is right (mostly)? Isn’t the fact that maybe he didn’t exist in reality make him all the more important? If there were no real Atticuses, then isn’t it the very function of artists to create one, to teach us how being better might look? ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/24 "2018-09-25T23:23:03Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > . . . If there were no real Atticuses, then isn’t it the very function of artists to create one, to teach us how being better might look? Correct. The OP seems to want journalism, however. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/25 "2018-09-25T23:35:51Z")
The point of the book wasn’t to say how things were, or to say how things should be, but to point the direction from the former to the latter. The story is of one person who made a difference for the good. Doing good is not the enemy of being perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/26 "2018-09-25T23:39:08Z")
Oh, don’t pick on a good read. Be glad she wrote only one novel in her life. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/27 "2018-09-25T23:55:05Z")
> [@Sloe\_Moe](#): > > Oh, don’t pick on a good read. Be glad she wrote only one novel in her life. I don’t know how to break it to you but…”Go Set A Watchman”, by Harper Lee (2015) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/28 "2018-09-26T00:43:38Z")
If the percentage of enthusiastic lynchers is not as high as the reality of the era, that actually makes current America seem _better_, because such a thing would be unthinkable amongst most people today. It actually weakens the argument that we have _not_ come a long way since then, if a larger number of people back then, including those in power, would heartily join or condone a lynch mob. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/29 "2018-09-26T01:10:16Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > good post well needed! Oh, fuck, yeah. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is it fair to say that _To Kill a Mockingbird_ is good fiction but bad history? Correction: Insipid fiction intended to make Northern, liberal, white readers feel good about themselves without requiring them to Be There. FTR: Just to clarify, I was younger than Scout but I was there and saw how Northern liberals were ostracized for speaking up. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/30 "2018-09-26T04:30:14Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > In all my life, I’ve met only a single black person who actually liked this book, and the longer I live, the more I understand why. The novel presents white racism the way white people want to think of it, not the way it actually was. Maybe it wasn’t meant to be an archetype for the Jim Crow South, but that is how a lot of people think of it (that I’ve met, anyway) and I find that confounding. > > In the world of the novel: > The town is made up of lovable eccentrics and essentially good-hearted people. The most virulent racists are the nasty, white-trash people who live out on the edge of town. A group of townspeople get together to lynch the accused, and this crowd is shamed into going home by Scout’s innocence and purity. The best lawyer in town has volunteered to represent the accused in the name of justice, and does such a good job that when he walks out of the courtroom, the black people observing stand up out of respect. The white-trash father of the accuser tries to harm this justice-serving lawyer, and is killed by a mentally disturbed eccentric. The local lawman decides to do nothing about this, and it is subtly suggested that some kind of rough justice was done, because of who the victim was and the nature of his killer. > > Don’t make me laugh. > > In reality, the sheriff would’ve been LEADING the charge to lynch John Robinson (law enforcement contributed plenty of Klan members), and kids like Scout would’ve either cheered them on or stood and watched. This is not hyperbole; pictures of children posing with adults under the hanging bodies of lynching victims are just a google search away. Note that in almost all such photos the people are not the white trash from the edge of town, but average, middle-class people. Racism was not some “low brow” activity; it was endemic. There’d be no real trial with evidence and witnesses, and even if there was any desire to hold one no lawyer in town would be willing to act as defense counsel and take the job seriously, because they valued their careers. And Boo Radley? Yeah, he’d be stuck in a state institution for life, a place built and maintained specifically FOR people like him > > Whew! Felt good to get that out. Weird. I never knew a black person who disliked the book. Most of my experience with it being required reading at Booker T. Washington High School in 1980. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/31 "2018-09-26T05:44:33Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > In all my life, I’ve met only a single black person who actually liked this book, and the longer I live, the more I understand why. . I was in a American Lit class in college, about 30% black, and and the consensus was that it was great American Lit, and not a single Black person in that class called it out as you have. I think you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/32 "2018-09-26T05:48:35Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I don’t know how to break it to you but…”Go Set A Watchman”, by Harper Lee (2015) A crappy first draft of To Kill Mockingbird, pushed out by her agent. She _did_ write only one novel. wiki: "_Although promoted by its publisher and initially described in media reports as a sequel to Lee’s best-selling novel, To Kill a Mockingbird, which was published in 1960, Go Set a Watchman is actually that novel’s first draft.[2][13] The novel was finished in 1957[13] and purchased by the J.B. Lippincott Company. Lee’s editor, Tay Hohoff, although impressed with elements of the story, saying that “the spark of the true writer flashed in every line”,[13] thought it was by no means ready for publication. It was, as she described it, “more a series of anecdotes than a fully conceived novel”. As Jonathan Mahler recounts in his Times article on Hohoff, she thought the strongest aspect of Lee’s novel was the flashback sequences featuring a young Scout, and thus requested that Lee use those flashbacks as a basis for a new novel. Lee agreed, and “during the next couple of years, Hohoff led Lee from one draft to the next until the book finally achieved its finished form and was retitled To Kill a Mockingbird.”[13]_ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/33 "2018-09-26T07:00:40Z")
> [@Lizard](#): > > The best lawyer in town has volunteered to represent the accused in the name of justice, Actually, Atticus was a public defender who had been assigned to the case. It was that he was actually going to make an effort to do his job, and not just go through the motions. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/34 "2018-09-26T08:47:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > As **Icarus** mentions, it was fiction. But to me, the point of the novel was not exactly a whitewash. > > … Some people are disposable… Racism isn’t the only -ism in the town; there is also a lot of classism. But keeping in mind that it’s a child’s view is important: to a child, the way their family is, is the Norm. Or at least, the way they understand their family to be; the reality tends to be more complicated, but a lot of the things that go on between adults go way over a child’s head or are completely misunderstood. And very often when a child realizes there is something they’re not understanding completely and tries to ask for clarification, the response is negative (laughter, derision or anger) and not illuminating at all. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/35 "2018-09-26T11:31:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, Atticus was a public defender who had been assigned to the case. It was that he was actually going to make an effort to do his job, and not just go through the motions. Right, but it’s vitally important that the real case that TKAM is based on–the Scottsboro Boys case–there was literally not one single public defender in the state of Alabama willing to do make an effort to do his job. The only organization willing to pay for a lawyer willing to do the job was The American Communist Party, and they couldn’t hire anyone local–they had to get a Jewish lawyer from NY. But Lee couldn’t have made Atticus a Jewish Lawyer from NY. She couldn’t have even made him a person willing to take money from communists. Because if she had, her audience wouldn’t have been sympathetic to the character. Her audience would not have identified with him. Her audience was too bigoted to accept that such a person was a hero–in a story about the damage bigotry does. Harper Lee wasn’t responsible for writing any particular book; my beef isn’t with her. But as a culture we use the book as a way to discharge guilt over the horrific acts of the era it depicts. We want to tell outselves #notallwhitepeople , because we still identify with our racial analogues, and admitting that it was pretty damn near all white people makes us feel guilty. It shouldn’t: it wasn’t anyone living today. There’s no guilt there. But as a society our sense of racial identity is so strong that we find a book that offers the possibility of absolution endlessly satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/36 "2018-09-26T12:58:40Z")
I see this over and over. People complain about a work of fiction not accurately depicting the _typical situation_. _Juno_ got slammed by this, for example. Look, if you write about the typical situation it’s going to be incredibly boring. C’mon, who wants to see a movie about the everyday life of an _average_ teenager??? So you write about the atypical. In the case of _TKaM_ the atypical means that the bulk of the white community doesn’t get together and hang the (falsely) accused black guy right away. The atypical means there’s a white lawyer in town who sees injustice and seeks to correct it. Etc. I can’t believe this aspect of writing fiction isn’t obvious to everyone. What sort of novel would _1984_ be if Winston Smith was a typical bureaucrat, kept his head down, did his job, and didn’t do anything to upset the state??? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/37 "2018-09-26T13:18:59Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Correct. The OP seems to want journalism, however. Or at the very least, historical fiction. TKAM is neither however. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/38 "2018-09-26T13:21:02Z")
Well, I loved the book as did my husband and children. See, as black people, we know racism. As an old people, my husband and I know what it was like during the civil rights era. As a southerner, my husband knows how racist southern whites were and are. But we all loved this book. For one thing, we know it is fiction so we don’t put the weight of all of real life onto it. That’s unfair to the story. And Harper is telling a story here, not reporting on race relations. The story is about how hard it is for one person to stand up against what he knows is wrong but how necessary it is. All the black people I know who read it look at it as a story of hope and not a story of white people trying to make themselves look better than they were. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/39 "2018-09-26T14:16:37Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Harper Lee wasn’t responsible for writing any particular book; my beef isn’t with her. But as a culture we use the book as a way to discharge guilt over the horrific acts of the era it depicts. We want to tell outselves #notallwhitepeople , because we still identify with our racial analogues, and admitting that it was pretty damn near all white people makes us feel guilty. It shouldn’t: it wasn’t anyone living today. There’s no guilt there. But as a society our sense of racial identity is so strong that we find a book that offers the possibility of absolution endlessly satisfying. Yes, this is an important point. But we need to remember it’s a criticism of us and our culture, not of the book itself. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902/40 "2018-09-26T14:26:02Z")
It occurs to me: **Lizard** says that he only knows one black person who likes the book. How many black people does he know who dislike it? How many black people does he know for whom he doesn’t know their opinion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-more-people-recognize-that-to-kill-a-mockingbird-is-white-apologist-crap/821902.md?page=3)