# Why don't people believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766 "2013-08-21T00:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/241 "2013-08-21T18:53:04Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Okay, but that’s your truth. I did add a letter “d” for anything that others thought of. That’s your belief. Again, only one can be right. If its a belief without evidence - why can only one be right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/242 "2013-08-21T18:53:22Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > In a way, in the end, if we don’t believe is it God’s fault? > He made a way for you, by sacrificing his only beloved Son so that you may inherit eternal life. Before, we shouldn’t even have eternal life, all of us, because we’re sinners, should have been sent to hell directly. But because he loved us, he sent his Son. He’s made a way, all you have to do is accept. Would you have others deny the gods they love, the religion they were brought up and believe in, the holy books they believe to be the truth, based on such a statement? Why is your book so much better than theirs? Who are _you_ to them, that they should take your word over that of their friends, family, teachers and religious leaders? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/243 "2013-08-21T18:54:55Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Yes ☹ So think hard and give us something, _anything_, that is not part of that circular reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/244 "2013-08-21T18:55:00Z")
Okay, my thought of the day And this is through personal experience You can’t confirm that God is real, but there are moments when you know He is. It’s like a personal experience. You don’t see it, yet you have this confirmation that it was from God. Yes, reading the Bible can help you develop a relationship with Him. But the experiences, or relationship is what makes it true to you. It gives you faith. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/245 "2013-08-21T18:59:18Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Okay, my thought of the day > > And this is through personal experience > > You can’t confirm that God is real, but there are moments when you know He is. > It’s like a personal experience. You don’t see it, yet you have this confirmation that it was from God. > Yes, reading the Bible can help you develop a relationship with Him. > But the experiences, or relationship is what makes it true to you. It gives you faith. But if it weren’t for the fact that you have been indoctrinated into a certain belief system, would you attribute that sensation to that particular deity? Please think hard before you answer that. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/246 "2013-08-21T18:59:41Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Okay, my thought of the day > > And this is through personal experience > > You can’t confirm that God is real, but there are moments when you know He is. > It’s like a personal experience. You don’t see it, yet you have this confirmation that it was from God. > Yes, reading the Bible can help you develop a relationship with Him. > But the experiences, or relationship is what makes it true to you. It gives you faith. Got a concrete example that “can only come from God” ? (actually, I like CZarcasm’s question better) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/247 "2013-08-21T19:02:17Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > But just as stated before, how can a sculpture made out of clay argue with the potter? How can we argue with God? It’s like whether we like it or not, He is who He is. I mean you can argue with God, but he’s always right. It’s a romantic notion but ultimately silly. Is clay even aware of the potter? If god is to humans as potter is to clay, would we even be able to conceive of his existence, let alone attributes, wants, commandments? That book that you hold in such high esteem is full of (contradicting) events and rules about what the christian god expects of his followers. Now take into account all of humanity, today and through history and the sum total of all the gods that have ever been worshiped and the myriad rules by which these gods have been worshiped. How can you reasonably come to the conclusion that any of them are right, let alone that yours alone is “the one”? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/248 "2013-08-21T19:05:59Z")
“Personal experience.” Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/249 "2013-08-21T19:06:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Welcome to the SDMB, **Timo**! . . . > [Ooh, here’s a fun one:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=550730) Trivia Dominoes! Make sure you read the entire thread before you put one of your own down – we don’t want any repeats! . . . 🙂 Read the entire thread? Now that’s just mean. That thing is HUGE. Timo, if I was going to jump into that thread, I’d only read the last few months’ worth. (Is it a year old, yet? More?) > [@Colophon](#): > > This. As Douglas Adams said: “I’d take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.” > > Of course, it is possible that his tragically early death was just a little joke by a vengeful god, . . . Especially the bit where he died holding a towel. > [@Timo](#): > > Well said. However Umar The Unwound does not give the Holy Spirit. . . Participating in many rituals can give the feeling that you describe as the Holy Spirit. Having been an agnostic neopagan for a few years, back in the day, I can report that I discovered that you don’t even need to believe in the story behind the ritual for it to work. And I use the word ritual very loosely. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same feeling that musicians get when they’re jamming. > [@Timo](#): > > . . . do not be insulted or think I’m closed-minded if I tell you that I will not be swayed by it. So you’re not willing to open your heart even though you’re asking other people to open theirs. > [@Timo](#): > > . . . rapture list removed . . . According to [wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture): > [@](#): > > Pre-tribulation rapture theology was \*\*developed in the 1830s \*\*by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. Bolding mine. The Rapture keeps being touted, but the dates for its arrival keep getting changed as they keep passing like Douglas Adams’s deadlines. ## Prophecies of the end of the world have always been a popular human pastime. As you can see from the[wikipedia list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events), belief in the Christian God is not necessary. It’s just something that people do. You won’t win converts by trying to scare people who might have bought a Maya Doomesday 2012 t-shirt for the joyous irony of it. Holy quote: “Does the kaleidoscope mourn the passing pattern, or rejoice in the jeweled dance.” Me. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/250 "2013-08-21T19:08:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > From my perspective, however, I basically do know that; my certainly God doesn’t exist is so close to absolute that it is effectively total. I would compare it, for instance, to my certainty that I could not fairly shuffle a deck of cards and come up with precisely the same deck three straight times. The odds against that happening are 1 in (80658175170943878571660636856403766975289505440883277824000000000000 times 80658175170943878571660636856403766975289505440883277824000000000000) which is greater than the number of atoms in the observable universe. Cool, I thought you just pulled that number out of your arse until I did a search engine on just it. Shouldn’t it be multiplied one more time though? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/251 "2013-08-21T19:09:36Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > In a way, in the end, if we don’t believe is it God’s fault? > He made a way for you, by sacrificing his only beloved Son so that you may inherit eternal life. Before, we shouldn’t even have eternal life, all of us, because we’re sinners, should have been sent to hell directly. But because he loved us, he sent his Son. He’s made a way, all you have to do is accept. That argument presupposes God. Suppose there was simply a guy, named Jesus, who died on the cross at the beginning of the common era. Suppose no god had anything to do with it. Suppose if I told you that Jesus came again, and to be truly saved, you need to understand the teaching of the Angel Meroni. (I’ll get my LDS theology really screwed up if I go much farther) - you haven’t yet completed the process. Or that Jesus was a prophet of God, but Mohammed sent the final divine work - once again, you’ve stopped to early. Or perhaps you’ve gone to far - Jesus didn’t fulfill the prophecies set down to be the Messiah, we are still waiting for the Messiah. And those are just the main Abrahamic traditions (dumbed down for fourth graders - comparative religion for elementary school doesn’t delve too deep). We aren’t even into this isn’t the right path at all - well except for the first “Jesus was some guy” path. There are even historians who aren’t sure Jesus was even one man - he may have been a composite of itinerant Jewish preachers and rabble rousers in the area. Or he may have not existed at all. There is really very little good contemporary evidence for his existence (which isn’t surprising, there isn’t a lot of evidence for most people who lived). Arguing the Bible proves Jesus existed is kind of like citing Malory to prove King Arthur existed (there is a bigger time gap between the ‘historical’ Arthur and Le Mort d’ Arthur than between the historical Jesus and the Gospels, but not much more between the “historical” Arthur and the original source material). ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/252 "2013-08-21T19:11:29Z")
Okay, yeah I see But is being indoctrinated the same as personal experiences? Your own, personal relationship, with God. Can’t be found anywhere in the Bible. Isn’t recorded in the Bible. After chatting with you guys, I realized that the Bible is full of verses, or God’s words, that you can either believe or not. Now if what is said in the Bible, like the Holy Spirit will guide you to spread the Gospel, does come true, is that not something to believe in? Then wouldn’t it just solidify your beliefs? And make the Bible a little more…true…er? Honestly, while responding to you guys yesterday at night, all these verses popped up into my head. Sometimes I would read the question, yet not comprehend, yet I still had the answer. And after trying to reread after responding to comprehend, I was still unable to do so. I think now that it’s more like testing what you believe in. And yes, maybe you can find inconsistencies in the Bible which may logically be inconsistent. However, I’ve had my personal experience with God to know that He is real, to know that it is not inconsistent, but higher than what we can comprehend. It is reasonable, but we don’t know how. I’d just like to add that maybe this is where Faith comes in to play. The Bible is just a step to knowing who God is, but actually confirming it for yourself is to experience it. It’s my mother’s God. But it’s also my God, because I have my own personal relationship with Him. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/253 "2013-08-21T19:11:32Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Okay, but that’s your truth. I did add a letter “d” for anything that others thought of. That’s your belief. Again, only one can be right. But my belief is that all beliefs are right. Or perhaps more accurately to my personal theology, I see no reason that that can’t be true if you postulate an omnipotent God. So, no, only one is not necessarily right. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/254 "2013-08-21T19:13:05Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > In a way, in the end, if we don’t believe is it God’s fault? Yes. > [@](#): > > He made a way for you, by sacrificing his only beloved Son so that you may inherit eternal life. Before, we shouldn’t even have eternal life, all of us, because we’re sinners, should have been sent to hell directly. But because he loved us, he sent his Son. He’s made a way, all you have to do is accept. And none of that was necessary. He made the rules that non believers go to hell, he can change them. He didn’t have to sacrifice his son, he’s the boss and calls all the shots. None of how this world plays out according to Christian theology _has_ to happen the way it does. God could’ve just chosen to not be the tyrant he seems. JS ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/255 "2013-08-21T19:14:52Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Okay, yeah I see > > But is being indoctrinated the same as personal experiences? > Your own, personal relationship, with God. Can’t be found anywhere in the Bible. Isn’t recorded in the Bible. > > After chatting with you guys, I realized that the Bible is full of verses, or God’s words, that you can either believe or not. > > Now if what is said in the Bible, like the Holy Spirit will guide you to spread the Gospel, does come true, is that not something to believe in? > > Then wouldn’t it just solidify your beliefs? > Honestly, while responding to you guys yesterday at night, all these verses popped up into my head. Sometimes I would read the question, yet not comprehend, yet I still had the answer. And after trying to reread after responding to comprehend, I was still unable to do so. > > I think now that it’s more like testing what you believe in. What the Bible says, does it come true. And yes, maybe you can find inconsistencies in the Bible which may logically be inconsistent. However, I’ve had my personal experience with God to know that He is real, to know that it is not inconsistent, but higher than what we can comprehend. It is reasonable, but we don’t know how. > > The Bible is just a step to knowing who God is, but actually confirming it for yourself is to experience it. You keep calling the bible ‘God’s words’ - prove that even that part is remotely true. Why do you ‘believe’ this outside of you being told it is so. Did the flood actually happen? How old is the earth? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/256 "2013-08-21T19:17:14Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > God - I don’t believe you can prove or disprove God. First of all, coming up with a definition is difficult. Secondly, my own “God” is so intertwined with “Universe” and “Spirit” that its hard to pull them apart. The God of many Dopers seems to be the universe or the meaning of it all. That is a god which can’t be disproved. We can argue about why bother, but if it makes people feel good, I’m all for it. Plus, those believing in this kind of God seem totally uninterested in interfering with anyone’s sex life. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/257 "2013-08-21T19:17:20Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > …However, I’ve had my personal experience with God to know that He is real… Such as? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/258 "2013-08-21T19:17:33Z")
I’m thinking that if God wanted a personal relationship with me… He knows where I live. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/259 "2013-08-21T19:20:24Z")
**Timo** , [here are some hard reasons why some will never accept Jesus as the Messiah.](http://www.jewsforjudaism.ca/resources-info/the-jewish-messiah) Were you ever taught these facts about Biblical prophecy concerning the Messiah? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/260 "2013-08-21T19:20:55Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > But here’s a question: What if God can’t be found through human wisdom or physical evidence? What if he purposely made it as a leap of faith to love what you don’t see? What if that was the test? Then most of us are going to hell, and your ‘loving’ god intentionally made us that way, so he intended us to go to hell before he made us. What’s that supposed to be a test of? > [@Timo](#): > > I mean you can argue with God, but he’s always right. Not by any definition of ‘right’ I can accept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=14)