# Why don't people believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766 "2013-08-21T00:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/361 "2013-08-22T00:48:42Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I assume you never took debating in high school. If you had, you’d know that one of the most important ways of preparing for a debate is to understand the argument of the other side inside and out. If you don’t do that you can never construct good counter-arguments. And the arguments have to be good ones, not strawman arguments. If you want to spread the word more effectively, you need to understand why people are atheists. No, Satan making us doing it or we refuse to look at the obvious truth of religion or we really just hate god are not good arguments. > There is a danger - you might get convinced by the other side. I did on one issue when I debated in high school. Want to take that chance? I agree. This might be pointless right now. Maybe a couple years later we can battle it out haha. But yes, I’d be willing to take the chance, if I don’t, what does that say about my belief? ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/362 "2013-08-22T00:49:05Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Right. But actually getting baptized in the river, is that not showing some kind of faith? No matter how small? I dunno, **Timo,** but I suppose it depends on the location. What kind of baptism do you recommend? Will a sprinkling do, and does it need to be holy water, or do you go for a full dunk, and is it okay if it is done outside and if the water is polluted? Say if done in Chernobyl, how fast do I need to be getting out of there? And what would we do about all of that afterglow radiation effect? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/363 "2013-08-22T00:49:31Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Now you’ve gone and done it and have blood on your hands. Look at how many you just murdered. Just think of how many you could have saved, if you had only kept your mouth shut. > > Eskimo: If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell? > Priest: No, not if you did not know. > Eskimo: Then why did you tell me? –Anne Dillard > [@](#): > > The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that’s where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won’t do if they don’t know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight. Terry Pratchett, _Eric_ ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/364 "2013-08-22T00:51:37Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > True. But when something is true, there is no need to understand everything, because the rest are bound to be false. > Doesn’t mean I’m not going to look into the other religions though as soon as you make the assumption that “something is true” - you’ve stopped investigating - you’ve stopped testing - and you have missed the point entirely. “Looking into other religions” - is not the point - testing what (and why) you believe X is. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/365 "2013-08-22T00:53:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The statement is provably false. > > There are times when understanding false things is useful. It happens all the time. > > It even pops up in mathematics. Proof by contradiction is essentially this principle. You get to the truth by starting with something false. > > A related principle is learning from our mistakes. It is the height of arrogance (and just not a good idea) to think that there is no value in false things. Well… I never said that there was no value in false things, I think. I just said that, if I know one thing to be true, the rest must be false. If I should boast in anything, then it should be in my belief in God. Maybe this Proof of contradiction can be used the other way around. Maybe a person can come to God after realizing all the other false religions. (Don’t get mad, just saying) ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/366 "2013-08-22T00:54:01Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > I agree. But all I have to say that if you fellowship with brothers and sisters, if you aren’t mislead by false prophets- prophets who go against the Bible- plus, some of you already know by your instincts that they may not be advocating for God- like those churches that force you to pay money to be forgiven of sin…yeah, like you can forgive your sin through earthly things. Jesus paid the price, you just have to pray for forgiveness. But I’m going off topic. In short, When you develop that relationship with God, you’ll know it’s true…haha… I mean… **has there been a religion that doesn’t take kindly to Christian baptisms?** maybe there is, I wouldn’t know. I think listening to > K-Love radio station can be a start. I could, but would I be here right now if I didn’t feel this way? If I didn’t feel that God was real? If I didn’t feel that there’s something that’s true about this God? In the end, like what was said before, only one can be true…take that risk of being baptized with the feeling that there might be a non-Christian God out there who looks down upon it, and the true God will be proud and happy to call you his child. That is also a test of faith. \ hmmm - the Romans didn’t particularly like the practice - pretty sure that some Islamic portions don’t look kindly on it (would have to double check that) - but yeah - there are plenty that would see that “pledge to a lesser god” as something to be condemned - ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/367 "2013-08-22T00:56:40Z")
**DerTrihs** , thanks for the funny, that was good. 😃 I’m in TX, and buying extra ammo. We no longer fire warning shots, due to the ammo shortage. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/368 "2013-08-22T00:57:32Z")
> [@simster](#): > > as soon as you make the assumption that “something is true” - you’ve stopped investigating - you’ve stopped testing - and you have missed the point entirely. > > “Looking into other religions” - is not the point - testing what (and why) you believe X is. I think the walk with the Lord is full of testing. He tests those who love Him. For it says in the Bible: James 1:2-4 2Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. So even if we have stopped testing ourselves, God is going to test us whether we like it or not. I’m willing to test my faith because it will only strengthen it. ---
**Author:** ![BunnyTVS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BunnyTVS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BunnyTVS)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/369 "2013-08-22T00:57:40Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Isaiah 14:12-15 > > How you have fallen from heaven, > morning star, son of the dawn! > You have been cast down to the earth, > you who once laid low the nations! > 13 You said in your heart, > “I will ascend to the heavens; > I will raise my throne > above the stars of God; > I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, > on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.[a] > 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; > I will make myself like the Most High.” > 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead, > to the depths of the pit. > > Notice the “I will” statements of pride, but you’re right I think, there isn’t a verse that states directly that Satan fell because of pride, but from the verse above, we can infer that he did. I don’t know all the versus so there might be one, there might not be one. It’s not even a verse about Satan. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/370 "2013-08-22T01:04:22Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > I think the walk with the Lord is full of testing. He tests those who love Him. For it says in the Bible: > > James 1:2-4 > 2Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, 3knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. 4And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. > > So even if we have stopped testing ourselves, God is going to test us whether we like it or not. I’m willing to test my faith because it will only strengthen it. you missed it again - read further - When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. James 1:13 ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/371 "2013-08-22T01:06:02Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > I dunno, **Timo,** but I suppose it depends on the location. What kind of baptism do you recommend? Will a sprinkling do, and does it need to be holy water, or do you go for a full dunk, and is it okay if it is done outside and if the water is polluted? Say if done in Chernobyl, how fast do I need to be getting out of there? And what would we do about all of that afterglow radiation effect? Uhhhh, well in my church we do full dunks. This one kid, a full-timer’s kid if that would be more impactful, had his in like…a dirty swamp-ish-like lake. He came out with all this black slob on his legs, haha it was like black mucus. I mean, why would you want to be baptized in Chernobyl? Maybe out of desperation and terrible location to be at? I mean, think of all the other places that have water. haha. I think, as long as God is there and approving. It shouldn’t matter, but I could be wrong. I know that John the Baptist baptized the full body in water. Like how your whole old body is dead and you come out new. \*Full timer is a person we call in our church that gives his whole life to God. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/372 "2013-08-22T01:09:04Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > . . . what would be the harm in baptizing yourself and finding out that it wasn’t true for yourself? What would be the harm in asking God to be real in your life? Of course, you must be genuine when you ask. . . . What harm? Little, really. I wouldn’t join a church, or tithe, or go door to door (or to discussion boards.) It’d be a private thing. No harm. But no benefit, because, well, I simply don’t believe it. Baptism would be a hollow sham. In my heart, I would know it’s nothing but water. I doubt God would be impressed by someone who just goes through the motions without any meaningful belief, and I don’t know how to boostrap belief. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/373 "2013-08-22T01:09:15Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Uhhhh, well in my church we do full dunks. This one kid, a full-timer’s kid if that would be more impactful, had his in like…a dirty swamp-ish-like lake. He came out with all this black slob on his legs, haha it was like black mucus. I mean, why would you want to be baptized in Chernobyl? Maybe out of desperation and terrible location to be at? I mean, think of all the other places that have water. haha. > > I think, as long as God is there and approving. It shouldn’t matter, but I could be wrong. > I know that John the Baptist baptized the full body in water. Like how your whole old body is dead and you come out new. > > \*Full timer is a person we call in our church that gives his whole life to God. Shouldn’t he have had enough faith that the water, no matter how dirty, he would come out clean? wouldn’t that be a ‘sign’ of GODS HOLY SPIRIT? I mean, c’mon - its a spriritual cleansing and all - but what good does that do if you come out with black tar mucus stains and no one will hug you and say how good you are? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/374 "2013-08-22T01:13:30Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > \*Full timer is a person we call in our church that gives his whole life to God. so, you’re a part timer? who do you give your life to when you’re not ‘on the clock’ ? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/375 "2013-08-22T01:21:47Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > I’d just like to add… > > If let’s say God wasn’t true, what would be the harm in baptizing yourself and finding out that it wasn’t true for yourself? What would be the harm in asking God to be real in your life? Of course, you must be genuine when you ask. But what harm could come across if you just took a second, and genuinely asked. If you did, and God did not do anything, then how are you to be blamed? You asked genuinely, God didn’t respond. You prayed for it. He didn’t answer. Then I guess some of us are safe. I was baptized, I was raised Christian, I had experiences like you described, I did all that, and where is God? Hiding? Why did he just go quietly away after a while? My conclusion is that your version of god isn’t real, and if there is a real one, it’s far different from yours. I didn’t even miss Him when He went away. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/376 "2013-08-22T01:33:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > you missed it again - read further - > > When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. James 1:13 Hmmmmmm…interesting When we are tempted, it because of our flesh. It is because of our desires. Not God’s. It’s like we know what we want, we know what our flesh wants, our desires, but it goes against the Bible, so we are tempted to want to do something of our flesh when we may know that it is wrong because it says so in the Bible. I think that is the temptation part. Temptation and Testing may be different, why? because of the following verses Genesis 22:1-2 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am,” he replied. Ex 20:20 (NIV) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning. Just to reiterate that the Christian life can be hard Acts 14:22 "strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” But yeah, I didn’t know the difference between temptation and trials/tests either. Thanks for pointing that out. Article about why we’re tested: [http://www.intouch.org/you/article-archive/content?topic=gods\_purpose\_in\_the\_storm\_article](http://www.intouch.org/you/article-archive/content?topic=gods_purpose_in_the_storm_article) ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/377 "2013-08-22T01:36:40Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Then I guess some of us are safe. I was baptized, I was raised Christian, I had experiences like you described, I did all that, and where is God? Hiding? Why did he just go quietly away after a while? My conclusion is that your version of god isn’t real, and if there is a real one, it’s far different from yours. I didn’t even miss Him when He went away. Mm…we have this term called lackluster Christians. Not saying that you are one. But it would be more helpful if you provided more details about your Christian life. I believe God’s always with you even when you feel that He’s gone. What happened when you felt that God left? How would you know if He went away if you never missed Him? Doesn’t that mean you never knew? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/378 "2013-08-22T01:39:34Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Hmmmmmm…interesting > > When we are tempted, it because of our flesh. It is because of our desires. Not God’s. It’s like we know what we want, we know what our flesh wants, our desires, but it goes against the Bible, so we are tempted to want to do something of our flesh when we may know that it is wrong because it says so in the Bible. I think that is the temptation part. > > Temptation and Testing may be different, why? because of the following verses > > Genesis 22:1-2 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” > “Here I am,” he replied. > Ex 20:20 (NIV) Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning. > > Just to reiterate that the Christian life can be hard > > Acts 14:22 "strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” > > But yeah, I didn’t know the difference between temptation and trials/tests either. Thanks for pointing that out. > > Article about why we’re tested: > [http://www.intouch.org/you/article-archive/content?topic=gods\_purpose\_in\_the\_storm\_article](http://www.intouch.org/you/article-archive/content?topic=gods_purpose_in_the_storm_article) For it to be a trial or test – it must be with something ‘evil’ or ‘bad’ (queue Abraham) or it wouldn’t be much of a test, temptation, etc So, old testemant says 'God will test you" - New Testament says “never say god tested you” - so - seems there is a conflict right there you need to figure out. Which is it - is God testing you or isn’t he? Whats so hard about the “Christian” life? are you being oprressed? Your quote in Acts is when the Christians (such as they were at the time) were actively being oppressed - it really doesnt apply now unless you like to put on the airs about how life for you is so hard because you have to ‘defend’ your faith on a message board… ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/379 "2013-08-22T01:39:51Z")
> [@simster](#): > > so, you’re a part timer? who do you give your life to when you’re not ‘on the clock’ ? Booze, dope, and easy women. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/380 "2013-08-22T01:40:12Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Oh, now you have to be baptized in the river for it to work? is there a particular river? moon phase? how many witnesses? Oh, haha I didn’t even notice that I typed river. Sorry, my focus wasn’t on where a person was going to be baptized. I was focused on explaining why taking a step to be baptized is considered faith, no matter how small. But no…River, lake, swamp, bathtub, back of a truck…I’ve seen all those, shouldn’t matter. Correct me if I’m wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=20)