# Why don't people believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766 "2013-08-21T00:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/682 "2013-08-23T18:37:44Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Hmm, interesting. Never thought of it that way. > > But, and please don’t get frustrated with me, maybe this upcoming thought is stupid. > > But my thinking is can’t only one faith be true? Because they all contradict in some way. Doesn’t matter how big the contradiction. If one belief says this, and the other that, then only one can be right. (let’s put aside the belief to have no faith) Only faiths that claim exclusivity. Lots of ancient faiths were about a tribe or nation, and did not make claims about the truth or non-truth of other gods. Alexander the Great was devout, in fact he thought he was descended from the gods. But Jewish kids are named Alexander in part because when he conquered he left native religions alone. In fact he married a Persian princess in her faith. For monotheistic religions, your statement is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/683 "2013-08-23T18:42:14Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > I agree, I’m going to have to look into this guy. > > But you also must remind yourself, don’t judge God based off of people. > > Yes haha, I know, what the heck? “Why can’t I judge God by the people who follow Him?” I agree. But also don’t judge god by the best of those who follow him. (Good for you to look up Fred Phelps before you made any claims about him. ) People are good and bad under all religions and under the lack of religion. Fred Phelps does not make god false and Albert Schweitzer does not make God true. The only danger - which you don’t seem to fall into - is that a person trusting a religious leader as the conduit of what God wants might do things they’d never do on their own since they cede their moral judgement to God and his spokespeople on earth. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/684 "2013-08-23T19:11:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s a famous quote (mis)attributed to Marcus Aurelius: > > “Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.” . . . The Epicurean “good” is similar. Do the right things, be good, love one another, for this makes you the happiest in this life. Hatred and fear and envy and other nasty emotions are painful. They hurt, and why would anyone go about hurting himself? Love, friendship, sharing, giving – these feel great! The sanest thing to do is exercise those. Even if you only do it for your own sake (reductio ad absurdum; no one does, but just suppose) it still turns out to be the path that provides the most benefit to society. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/685 "2013-08-23T19:12:27Z")
> [@Timo](#): > > Very true, it is still possible. But if none of the religions are correct, then nothing would happen after death. People who believed in all the possible religions would never know. > > Maybe like…a waste of their one time on earth… > > but then also maybe, better than taking a chance. It’s definitely a matter of opinion though. Maybe, maybe not. Some versions of Buddhists are pretty atheistic (its a strange religion) but believe in an afterlife. God is not a requirement for afterlife. But as was said before - what does it matter. If there is a deity and he is just, he will weigh your life on its merits - not on the litmus test of belief. If there is no deity and our life ends, well, that’s it. And the reward for a good life lived should be a good life lived. If you expect to be rewarded for your good life through heaven and that’s the reason you are a good person, well, that seems pretty shallow to a lot of atheists, who are good people not in expectation of eternal reward, but because its the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/686 "2013-08-23T19:33:42Z")
I always liked this - **The Agnostics Prayer** [QUOTE=Roger Zelazny] Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to ensure any possible benefit for which you may be eligible after the destruction of your body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure your receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as your elected intermediary between yourself and that which may not be yourself, but which may have an interest in the matter of your receiving as much as it is possible for you to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/687 "2013-08-23T19:54:58Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I always liked this - **The Agnostics Prayer** No purchase necessary. Cannot be combined with other offers. Limit of one per customer. Void where prohibited by law. Offer expires. ---
**Author:** ![CraterLayer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@CraterLayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CraterLayer)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/688 "2013-08-23T19:55:22Z")
As someone who remembers (as a 5 yr old) the Cuban missile crisis (when my parents bought lots of canned food, and my school made us freeze against the hallway walls, among other things whenever the sirens went off), then seeing my first grade teacher crying uncontrollably when another teacher came in crying to inform her about JFK. Then Vietnam. As an Altar boy who had good grades in a Catholic School, I spent many school mornings serving at the Funerals. Many of them I knew. Where is there a god in all of this? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/689 "2013-08-23T19:59:15Z")
> [@CraterLayer](#): > > As someone who remembers (as a 5 yr old) the Cuban missile crisis (when my parents bought lots of canned food, and my school made us freeze against the hallway walls, among other things whenever the sirens went off), then seeing my first grade teacher crying uncontrollably when another teacher came in crying to inform her about JFK. Then Vietnam. As an Altar boy who had good grades in a Catholic School, I spent many school mornings serving at the Funerals. Many of them I knew. Where is there a god in all of this? Meh. Much as I might disagree with Timo, I have to think that “what about the Cuban Missile Crisis, where nuclear war was averted at the last moment?” is a weird choice if you’re trying to refute the idea that someone is watching out for us. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/690 "2013-08-23T20:00:19Z")
What’s a Timo? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/691 "2013-08-23T20:06:49Z")
Why couldn’t this be posted in the original thread **Timo** is participating in? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/692 "2013-08-23T20:08:21Z")
> [@CraterLayer](#): > > As someone who remembers (as a 5 yr old) the Cuban missile crisis (when my parents bought lots of canned food, and my school made us freeze against the hallway walls, among other things whenever the sirens went off), then seeing my first grade teacher crying uncontrollably when another teacher came in crying to inform her about JFK. Then Vietnam. As an Altar boy who had good grades in a Catholic School, I spent many school mornings serving at the Funerals. Many of them I knew. Where is there a god in all of this? Well, that’s an easy one. Free will. It doesn’t mean anything if God does not let bad things happen. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/693 "2013-08-23T20:21:06Z")
Timo hasn’t even succeeded in demonstrating even the EXISTENCE of God. You should be holding him to that. Using the Bible, a work dependent on God’s authority, as proof of God’s existence, is logically untenable and Timo has failed long before your question becomes relevant. The existence of free will in and of itself does not disprove God’s existence. HSHP, devout Catholic who can’t abide amateur witnessing ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/694 "2013-08-23T20:22:45Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > The existence of free will in and of itself does not disprove God’s existence. Nor, for that matter, does it prove the existence of free will. What we call “free will” might be an illusion. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/695 "2013-08-23T20:25:47Z")
In answer to the OP’s question: Because the belief in God, especially the Christian God is unsupported by facts, and if true, would make the God of the Bible an evil shit. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/696 "2013-08-23T20:32:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why couldn’t this be posted in the original thread **Timo** is participating in? Threads merged. ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/697 "2013-08-23T20:37:27Z")
> [@FlyingRat](#): > > Well said (as with all your other posts). > > I fall on the agnostic, #1 side of what **Dorjan** describes, and although I’m not sure I can call myself exclusively “Christian” anymore, something I was thinking that **Timo** might benefit from checking out is the Unfundamentalist Christians group on Facebook-- specifically their [“What We Believe”](https://www.facebook.com/UnfundamentalistChristians/app_208195102528120) page. > > My emphasis added: > **Timo** , the positions above have had a great deal more time, critical thought, and serious meditation put into them than you have put into your own religious beliefs, or that most of the other/adult Christians you meet have put into theirs. In your case: you’re 17! You’re young! This is a _hard_ thing to wrap your head around, and you are showing very promising signs of being open-minded so far. But if you want to do it _right_ when it comes to treating _all_ your fellow human beings with compassion and respect (specifically in terms of #3 and #9 above) you _have_ to put in the effort to think about this, even if it means changing your mind. 1. Following the word of God means taking into account the entirety of God’s words. The Bible itself tells us that it consists of songs, visions, histories, dreams, parables, commandments…the Bible itself tells us that the Bible is not a uniform document, with each passage spelling out something clear and specific, and all passages having equal value. The Bible is not a rulebook for being Christian. Isolating a Bible passage from its context, and then claiming a sort of moral helplessness about that passage because “it’s in the Bible,” is failing to take the Bible either literally or seriously. 2. Christianity is supposed to be all about nothing more (and nothing less!) than living a life of love, compassion, fairness, peace, and humility. 3. The belief that throughout history God chose to introduce himself in different ways into different culture streams is more reasonable, respectful, and compassionate than is the conviction that there is only one correct way to understand and worship God. 4. God can handle converting people. Our job is to love people. #2,#3,#7,and #9 I don’t think I can disagree with . Especially #9, awesome to know about. For number 2 though, just to clarify, does that mean we can’t just pick or choose which passage in the Bible because we like it and it’s convenient for us. So, if let’s say, there’s a passage in the Old Testament about God allowing others to be killed by His men, since we know that in another verse, it says that God loves us. We have to assume that there can be a possible reason that, if we were there, we would agree in the deaths? This might only provoke the question, Is God cruel? My thought is, if God is love. Then His punishment can’t be cruel. His reasonings can’t be cruel. Number seven is interesting. There’s a verse in the New Testament that says it doesn’t matter what kinds of food is put into the body (Mark 7:14-23) . Annnd it doesn’t matter if you abstain from it. (Romans 14:1-23) So that might be an example of what one person does to worship God, and another doesn’t, doesn’t mean both can’t please God through separate actions. In the end, it is God to decide. * * * Oh wait… I think I might see what you’re saying now… Are you saying that I should show compassion and respect for other religions? ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/698 "2013-08-23T20:42:07Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > What’s a Timo? Beats me ---
**Author:** ![Timo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c4cdca/32.png) [@Timo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Timo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/699 "2013-08-23T21:13:34Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > Timo hasn’t even succeeded in demonstrating even the EXISTENCE of God. You should be holding him to that. Using the Bible, a work dependent on God’s authority, as proof of God’s existence, is logically untenable and Timo has failed long before your question becomes relevant. > > The existence of free will in and of itself does not disprove God’s existence. > > HSHP, devout Catholic who can’t abide amateur witnessing When this thread started, it wasn’t like I was trying to witness…I actually had to google it to see what you even meant by that… If you were to start back from #1 and make your way chronologically to here, then you would have already known that I did state my ignorance. So uh, by stating that I’m an amateur shouldn’t be shocking news to those who have read my previous posts. So the question was genuine. I wanted to know. When I read what people were posting could be answered from the Bible, I started quoting from it, unaware that it would be useless. Which then blew up where I was trying to use some of my own personal experiences to help, but it wasn’t like I was purposefully going to use it in the first place. If that sounds like witnessing, then fine, I’m sorry, maybe I don’t understand the concept then, but that wasn’t my purpose. Plus, does it even hurt trying to talk about God? Do I have to witness to talk to unbelievers about Him? I’m actually learning from all this, I don’t know if they are, but I am. Doesn’t matter though. I think I’m done here. It’s an unending loop in terms of reasoning. It was nice meeting and conversing with all of you who have been on this thread since the beginning. I’ve learned a lot. I’m still going to check up on that Tanakh though. Maybe we’ll talk again sometime later in the future 🙂 By the way, what makes you a devout catholic? Why do you believe in God? What makes Him real to you? Maybe you can answer that while I’m gone. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/700 "2013-08-23T21:32:57Z")
I don’t think you were witnessing. I think you came in the spirit of honest inquiry. But it takes a while for people to figure out who is asking out of honest inquiry and who is trying to preach. And you had to change your tactics to not only hear what was being said, but to listen and respond before we could validate that this was honest inquiry and not a drive by witnessing of that version of Christian who has no tolerance for anything other than his own truth. ---
**Author:** ![TARL\_FURY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@TARL\_FURY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TARL_FURY)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/701 "2013-08-23T21:37:47Z")
I am going to make this short. For me, all existence/consciousness is baffling. It is just as likely that mankind suddly burst into existence as it is for any “god” to exist PERIOD. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=36)