# Why don't people believe in God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766 "2013-08-21T00:49:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/802 "2013-09-06T02:15:10Z")
I wouldn’t say religion is intellectually dead. The medieval period has at least moments of remarkable enlightenment, with debates over logic and science. There were also sporadic outbreaks of remarkable artistic creativity, with some of the world’s best music, architecture, paintings and sculpture. Even if the theological dogmatic material itself were intellectually dead, the imagery and ideas could inspire people to remarkable contributions to beauty and to knowledge. I know it must surely seem like an absurd waste of time… Think of all the creativity that has been inspired by the Dungeons and Dragons games! Some magnificent artwork, a few quite good novels (yes, yes, and a bunch of Elminster crap) and even the game design itself, the formation of an entirely new form of art all within our living memory. All over a stupid fantasy game! But…what fun it all has been! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/803 "2013-09-06T10:32:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s part and parcel of the over-romanticized notion of god and the constant toadying that fills all prayer books - “Oh God, You are so Big, So incredibly Huge. Gosh we are all so impressed down here, I can tell You.” (- Monty Python) It’s what put me off religion first and most, way before I was old enough to articulate a logical argument against the existence of a deity. > [@Trinopus](#): > > I wouldn’t say religion is intellectually dead. The medieval period has at least moments of remarkable enlightenment, with debates over logic and science. There were also sporadic outbreaks of remarkable artistic creativity, with some of the world’s best music, architecture, paintings and sculpture. > > Even if the theological dogmatic material itself were intellectually dead, the imagery and ideas could inspire people to remarkable contributions to beauty and to knowledge. > > I know it must surely seem like an absurd waste of time… Think of all the creativity that has been inspired by the Dungeons and Dragons games! Some magnificent artwork, a few quite good novels (yes, yes, and a bunch of Elminster crap) and even the game design itself, the formation of an entirely new form of art all within our living memory. All over a stupid fantasy game! But…what fun it all has been! Combine the two thoughts and you get [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMEwIIh7yE). You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/804 "2013-09-06T10:44:26Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Only by external forces. It is intellectually dead, and can only be reformed by pressure from the rest of society. Reformation always comes from within. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/805 "2013-09-06T11:03:30Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Reformation always comes from within. This is true, but one cannot underestimate the importance of influence from external sources. Belief systems rely almost entirely on that premise since evidence of miracles and magic are in such short supply. The rise of custom made belief systems and non-belief is largely due to the influence of reason and logic that undermines established religions. Society is a powerful reformer. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/806 "2013-09-06T11:34:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Reformation always comes from within. Quite so. However the transformation is of one’s concept of “self”, not the reformation of one’s religion. In my experience, as I my inner self transformed, my outer religion (my need for it) drifted into irrelevance. I have recounted earlier here, in broad strokes, my “fall from grace” at age 17, my journey into atheism and my “salvation” at age 27. Let me elucidate further. Back in 1958, I was on my knees at bedtime, praying for help in some teenage crisis. It might have been about some maternal (mom was the bad cop) injustice, a late homework assignment or losing a girlfriend, who knows? The point is that I was praying in supplication and I realized that it was only when I needed help that I prayed. In other words, I saw myself as a hypocrite. This would not do! I vowed then and there not to pray again and thought to myself, if this means I go to hell, then so be it and God isn’t worth praying to anyway. There’s more to the story but this is enough for now. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/807 "2013-09-06T11:44:56Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Combine the two thoughts and you get [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMEwIIh7yE). > > You’re welcome. Great video. It certainly captures the “fearful” aspects of God that we find at the core of most religions. These include the confusion or conflation of humiliation and humility, fear and awe, subjugation and love and grandiosity and magnitude. Exactly what’s wrong, IMO, with religion which I see as the institutionalization of misunderstanding and superstition. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/808 "2013-09-06T12:08:21Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Reformation always comes from within. No; when it comes to religion & the religious, reformation usually comes from the fact that they’d get arrested if they _didn’t_ reform. Or just from older generations dying. But usually, it’s the application of force & coercion in one form or another. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/809 "2013-09-06T13:07:22Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Why do you bring it up? You know God is not like that. I don’t know anything about God, or a God, it is a human concept. I don’t see any evidence of a God even though I have searched for many, many years. If there is a God it is nothing like anything I have heard that would pertain to a supreme being, as described in any holy book. all comes from human ideas or thought. As I se it a truly supreme being would have no trouble making him/herself known to all people he is said to have created, not just one out of millions. And the ones who claim such seems far from knowing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/810 "2013-09-06T14:22:12Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > Why do you bring it up? You know God is not like that. Are you claiming that atheists secretly believe in the god you worship? ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/811 "2013-09-06T14:26:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you claiming that atheists secretly believe in the god you worship? To deny anything you must obviously believe in it, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/812 "2013-09-06T14:29:02Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > To deny anything you must obviously believe in it, IMO. I can believe that you believe in a ‘God’ and deny that existence of that God with out evidence for it. I deny the existence of unicorns, leprechauns and vampires on the same reasoning. Do you believe in those? The ‘concept’ of God is easy to understand - and an atheist rejects the existence of this ‘being’. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/813 "2013-09-06T14:36:48Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I can believe that you believe in a ‘God’ and deny that existence of that God with out evidence for it. > > I deny the existence of unicorns, leprechauns and vampires on the same reasoning. > > Do you believe in those? > > The ‘concept’ of God is easy to understand - and an atheist rejects the existence of this ‘being’. God is an idea just as you and I are ideas. Ideas exist regardless of whether one professes to believe in them. God is beyond belief but not beyond experience. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/814 "2013-09-06T14:40:12Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > God is an idea just as you and I are ideas. Ideas exist regardless of whether one professes to believe in them. God is beyond belief but not beyond experience. > > Aloha So, are you saying that ‘God’ is \*\*\*not \*\*\*a seperate physical ‘all powerful’ entity and is only the creation of your mind? because that is not the ‘God’ of the bible nor the subject of the thread itself - (which is the God of the NT /jesus) - nor is it the concept of ‘God’ that most people talk about when reffering to ‘God’. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/815 "2013-09-06T14:46:27Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Quite so. However the transformation is of one’s concept of “self”, not the reformation of one’s religion. In my experience, as I my inner self transformed, my outer religion (my need for it) drifted into irrelevance. > > I have recounted earlier here, in broad strokes, my “fall from grace” at age 17, my journey into atheism and my “salvation” at age 27. Let me elucidate further. > > Back in 1958, I was on my knees at bedtime, praying for help in some teenage crisis. It might have been about some maternal (mom was the bad cop) injustice, a late homework assignment or losing a girlfriend, who knows? The point is that I was praying in supplication and I realized that it was only when I needed help that I prayed. In other words, I saw myself as a hypocrite. > > This would not do! I vowed then and there not to pray again and thought to myself, if this means I go to hell, then so be it and God isn’t worth praying to anyway. > > There’s more to the story but this is enough for now. > > Aloha I like your style of telling it like it is or was. But you never fell from grace by dropping religion. It only enhanced your ability to understand yourself and the world you live in. I think you would agree with that. I pray all the time but don’t ask for anything. I pray to give thanks for what I have and my successes. Some people are very poor, all they have is money. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/816 "2013-09-06T14:48:46Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I don’t know anything about God, or a God, it is a human concept. I don’t see any evidence of a God even though I have searched for many, many years. If there is a God it is nothing like anything I have heard that would pertain to a supreme being, as described in any holy book. all comes from human ideas or thought. > > As I se it a truly supreme being would have no trouble making him/herself known to all people he is said to have created, not just one out of millions. And the ones who claim such seems far from knowing. You are looking in the wrong places, God is within you. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/817 "2013-09-06T14:51:49Z")
> [@simster](#): > > So, are you saying that ‘God’ is \*\*\*not \*\*\*a seperate physical ‘all powerful’ entity and is only the creation of your mind? > > because that is not the ‘God’ of the bible nor the subject of the thread itself - (which is the God of the NT /jesus) - nor is it the concept of ‘God’ that most people talk about when reffering to ‘God’. Check the OP. It does not mention the NT. I have said that I do believe in God. I also know Him as my Father, just as He is yours. Obviously, I am not the “most people” you evidently lean upon for support. Aloha ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/818 "2013-09-06T14:54:59Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > You are looking in the wrong places, God is within you. This is basically the ‘Gnostic’ approach - it is nothing new. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/819 "2013-09-06T14:56:12Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > Check the OP. It does not mention the NT. I have said that I do believe in God. I also know Him as my Father, just as He is yours. Obviously, I am not the “most people” you evidently lean upon for support. > > Aloha Read post 3 for the clarification of what the OP is discussing. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/820 "2013-09-06T15:02:55Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Read post 3 for the clarification of what the OP is discussing. > [@Timo](#): > > Just out of curiosity, why don’t people believe in God? I’m interested in your personal experiences or just events that prevents your belief. > … This is the OP as I took it to be. > [@simster](#): > > This is basically the ‘Gnostic’ approach - it is nothing new. True. So what? Aloha ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766/821 "2013-09-06T15:06:27Z")
> [@jsutter](#): > > This is the OP as I took it to be. > > Aloha Why do you put “aloha” after every post? I can see adding it when you first enter a conversation, and maybe when you intend to leave one, but otherwise…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-believe-in-god/666766.md?page=42)