Why don't people believe in God?

[Timo]

@Czarcasm

Why don’t you put your imagination aside just this once, open the book, and find out for yourself? Here is your chance to read it for yourself instead of taking other people’s words for what it says and what it means.

Okay, you’re right

Be right back

[Marley23]

@Timo

But what did those people who cried out for help do before? Why was there a battle in the first place? Maybe they initiated? They may seem like the victims only because of crying out for help, but what did they do to have God ignore them?

How very Christian.

[Timo]

@Czarcasm

Why don’t you save those "ha ha"s for when somebody tells a joke, o.k.?

Should my humor be similar to yours?

[Timo]

@Fear_Itself

Yes, my favorite Psalm demonstrates the essence of the Holy Spirit:

Psalm 18:37-42

Okay first of all guys..

Psalm 18 is about David… King David

Before David became king, he was a shepherd.
King Saul, the man whose men are dying, was jealous of David and wanted to kill him…

Why? Because Saul sinned greatly and God said that David would take his place.

God told Samuel to find a new King, and BAM, turns out to be David.

“God commanded King Saul to do something (1 Samuel 15: 2-3). But King Saul did not do it completely (1 Samuel 15:9). Because of this “…God lose favor with King Saul” (1 Samuel 15:11).”

It wasn’t David who wanted to kill Saul, It was Saul trying to kill David.

There’s even the part where David had the chance to kill King Saul, but he decided not to because Saul was the the King that God appointed.

So yeah, like I said before. What were the people doing before, what did they do to have God turn his head away? Because now they were trying to kill a man that God would appoint as the new king.

[Strinka]

@Timo

Maybe. That would make sense. However, I don’t know, and this is a genuine question, but are there like other religions where many people claim to feel their God to be true?

Yes. Every religion has true believers who have faith in their religion that’s just as strong as your faith in your religion. That’s why faith is such a bad reason to believe in something.

[panaccione]

@Timo

I don’t believe you’ll ever understand unless you can have your own personal experience.

It’s called confirmation bias, Timo. When something peculiar in your life happens, instead of attributing it to random chance or a coincidence, like a rational person, you attribute it to “god.” You likely do this cause you were brought up with this belief.

I don’t think you’ll ever understand at all.

[Learjeff]

SIgh … another 10 pages on an old topic, but still no new ideas as far as I could see.

I didn’t read them all, though. Did Timo ever respond to the question about someone who tries to commune with God but fails?

That’s me. I followed Timo’s advice: I wanted a relationship with God, but after years of steadfast and earnest intent, all I got were more doubts.

[DigitalC]

@Timo

True, but it’s one of the benefits of doing so. In a way, the question arises whether you’re going to risk the consequences. What’s the harm in believing?

if you’re living a peaceful life and you don’t need a God- which can be a deceiving life to live because everything is temporary. In a way, don’t you think that Satan has a great strategy to keep people concentrated and distracted with earthly things, to make them believe that they don’t need God in their lives, and when those people die, it’s too late to regret. Not saying that you can’t live a peaceful life with God, or a richly life, King David and King Samuel did, but why wouldn’t you want both?

Because Satan might burn me forever is another not very good reason to believe in god.

Maybe this would help, I’m not saying all celebrities take drugs or are live unhealthy or terrible lifestyles, but some do. Some celebrities who have the money, the fame, the huge houses, still turn to drugs. Why? I don’t know. But, in a way, it makes me think that some of those who did weren’t satisfied.

Mostly because they feel good.

Here’s a short analogy. God is to us humans as a hand is to a glove. It’s a perfect fit, it’ll quench this feeling of wanting more in life, maybe of emptiness.

What if we don’t feel empty or want to fill that emptiness with real things?

[Marley23]

@DigitalC

Because Satan might burn me forever is another not very good reason to believe in god.

It’s kind of a pathetic threat, but Timo is still putting the cart before the horse here. If I’m not sure there’s a God, why am I supposed to worry about Satan? I’ve only asked this a handful of times.

[Voyager]

@razncain

I nearly fell into that trap too, just didn’t think anything was going on that far back. Weren’t you on Jeopardy too? Seems like I read a thread of all of the Jeopardy contestants that are from the Straight Dope board, and was really impressed how many we had, and thought I remember you being one of them. Lot of interesting smart people here. I’m not worthy, but appreciate you guys putting up with me, nevertheless.

That was me - one of many. I only came in second, and my one week vacation prize was driving distance from my house.

PLATO was fun because we had to invent everything. I remember that when they introduced quoting it created a gigantic thread called “Don’t you get a feeling of deja vu reading PAD” which was just each poster quoting the ones before. (They did multiquotes.)

When notes expanded there was a specific one for religion. That was one of the places I hung out.

I think I might have done the first on-line Star Trek content ever, but I’ve searched for references to on-line history and didn’t find anything.

[Czarcasm]

@Timo

Okay first of all guys…

Psalm 18 is about David… King David

Before David became king, he was a shepherd.
King Saul, the man whose men are dying, was jealous of David and wanted to kill him…

Why? Because Saul sinned greatly and God said that David would take his place.

God told Samuel to find a new King, and BAM, turns out to be David.

“God commanded King Saul to do something (1 Samuel 15: 2-3). But King Saul did not do it completely (1 Samuel 15:9). Because of this “…God lose favor with King Saul” (1 Samuel 15:11).”

It wasn’t David who wanted to kill Saul, It was Saul trying to kill David.

There’s even the part where David had the chance to kill King Saul, but he decided not to because Saul was the the King that God appointed.

So yeah, like I said before. What were the people doing before, what did they do to have God turn his head away? Because now they were trying to kill a man that God would appoint as the new king.

Which Bible did you read to get this? Assuming of course that you opened up a Bible instead of going to an approved internet site.

[Timo]

@Dorjan

This is at least the second or third time you’ve admitted to the very point so many here are trying to get you to see.

Everyone has personal experiences, things that happened to them. Not all of these things can be explained, and it’s human nature to seek out an answer. Many times that answer comes from religion.

Ah, but what religion? You say yourself you grew up in a Christian household. You have been indoctrinated with Christian lore, Christian literature, Christian traditions. Naturally, when you seek to find a meaning to your personal experiences, Christianity is going to be the first thing that fits that bill. And that’s cool, if that’s what makes things make sense to you, and makes you happy, awesome!

Here is what you need to understand though, and please try to understand it.

You are no different from Ahmed in Tehran. Ahmed grew up surrounded by Islam the same way you grew up surrounded by Christianity. Ahmed seeks an answer to his personal experiences, something that makes his life make sense. Which religion do you think will most likely fit that bill and make sense to him? It will most likely be Islam.

Take our dear Aanamika. Aanamika grew up surrounded by Hinduism the same way you grew up surrounded by Christianity. Aanamika seeks an answer to her personal experiences, something that makes her life make sense. Which religion do you think will most likely fit that bill and make sense to her? As she has stated herself, Hinduism fits the bill best for her.

Consider Akira, born and raised in Nagoya, Japan. Akira grew up surrounded by Shinto lore, Shinto literature, Shinto traditions. Naturally, when he seeks to find a meaning to his personal experiences, Shinto is going to be the first thing that makes complete sense to him.
I sincerely hope by now you are starting to see a pattern here?

Here is the next part.

You, Ahmed, Aanamika, and Akira are NO MORE CORRECT OR INCORRECT in your beliefs than the other. If, by accident of birth, Ahmed was born in your household and you in his, Ahmed would in all likelihood be in here annoying us with Bible quotes and you would have just recently celebrated Eid al-Fitr a couple of weeks ago.

If you still cannot understand why your religious beliefs, and nearly everyone else’s, are overwhelmingly due to where you were born and how you were raised, then we might as well shut this entire thread down, as you are either being deliberately obtuse or are mentally incapable of understanding anything we are trying to explain to you.

Yeah, I see it now. I haven’t been a believer in any other religions, so I would have no way of identifying the difference between personal experiences, assuming that there are.

Yet, for those who have, there’s a person in my church who was a strong Buddhist, for he grew up to be one. He said that he was so intolerant to the Christian word that for many years he just ignored it. Now, it’ll be better if he explained it himself, but now, this man is a Christian who has never doubted loving God. How do I know this and how can I make such an assumption? Because I dare say that he loves God more than I do. Because he had many more experiences. Through his action and conduct, you can tell. Might I add, his children are also in the church, growing up in the church life.

Now I understand that it may be the other way around. A christian person may go to a different belief. However, one might ask, what setting was he in? How did he grow up in the Lord? Was it religious? Was it just a tradition? Or was it a loving experience?
And you might be tearing your hair right now, saying who’s to know whether the other people that became christians after being in other religions did not fully understand that religion…

Don’t know. I personally don’t know. But you can ask them.

[Musicat]

@Timo

This isn’t it… but to give you an idea it’s like… Don’t walk blindly for it is foolish
Walk blindly for it is foolish not to do so

And those two verses are on the same page
Why? I don’t know. Does it make sense? No. But I know there’s a reason behind it that is deeper and that I just can’t figure out.

Whenever you see a contradiction or something you can’t explain, some of the possibilities are[ol][li]It’s a mistake or in error, written by fallible and ignorant humans []It’s too deep for me, but God said it, so it must be true.[/ol]You cannot assume the second until you have considered the first.[/li]
Basically, all religion boils down to:[ul][]People make shit up, and[*]People believe the shit that’s made up.[/ul]

[Timo]

@Czarcasm

Which Bible did you read to get this? Assuming of course that you opened up a Bible instead of going to an approved internet site.

I did. NLT. In fact, it’s opened right in front of me. I might want to add that my church reads through many versions and compares them. We don’t have a set version of the Bible we follow. Just in case you’re trying to make any assumptions based off of the version of Bible I read.

[Voyager]

@CurtC

Sometimes we didn’t even have 0s. I once debated the cosmological argument with a guy using only 1s.

That must have been me, since I am the inventor of Base 1 arithmetic. My version only uses 0s, but 1s would work as well. I’ve even published on it.
There are great advantages to Base 1. It is very green, since Shannon’s information theory says that it requires no energy.
I can’t understand why this hasn’t taken off. In any case, the base 1 unit is called a nit. Base 1 muxes are called nit pickers, and experts in Base 1 are nit wits.

[Marley23]

@Timo

there’s a person in my church who was a strong Buddhist, for he grew up to be one. He said that he was so intolerant to the Christian word that for many years he just ignored it.

It’s a real stretch to call that intolerance.

[Fear_Itself]

@Timo

So yeah, like I said before. What were the people doing before, what did they do to have God turn his head away? Because now they were trying to kill a man that God would appoint as the new king.

It is good to know that if I believe I am one of god’s chosen people, I can kill my enemies.

[simster]

@Timo

Yeah, I see it now. I haven’t been a believer in any other religions, so I would have no way of identifying the difference between personal experiences, assuming that there are.

Yet, for those who have, there’s a person in my church who was a strong Buddhist, for he grew up to be one. He said that he was so intolerant to the Christian word that for many years he just ignored it. Now, it’ll be better if he explained it himself, but now, this man is a Christian who has never doubted loving God. How do I know this and how can I make such an assumption? Because I dare say that he loves God more than I do. Because he had many more experiences. Through his action and conduct, you can tell. Might I add, his children are also in the church, growing up in the church life.

Now I understand that it may be the other way around. A christian person may go to a different belief. However, one might ask, what setting was he in? How did he grow up in the Lord? Was it religious? Was it just a tradition? Or was it a loving experience?
And you might be tearing your hair right now, saying who’s to know whether the other people that became christians after being in other religions did not fully understand that religion…

Don’t know. I personally don’t know. But you can ask them.

You’ve never changed you’re mind about toppings on a pizza?

Since it all boils down to “personal experience” how is switching one direction or the other good or bad?

[Voyager]

@Timo

Yeah, I see it now. I haven’t been a believer in any other religions, so I would have no way of identifying the difference between personal experiences, assuming that there are.

But you can critically evaluate your own experiences. Lots of people have lots of internal experiences, which usually get understood in the context of their culture. In the Middle Ages demons came to you in your sleep, now it is space aliens. If you grew up with Hindu gods they will talk to you, if you grow up with Jesus he will.

What would signs be of real experiences?

1. Everyone had the same experience. If there is one god, he’d visit lots of people and give the same message.
2. He’d tell you something that you don’t know. That doesn’t mean stuff you can find in any self-help book. If God came to me, I’d ask him if P=NP (an unresolved problem in complexity theory) though a cure for AIDS would be better. If you want to be venal ask him for what the market will do or who will win the third race at Belmont.
   God makes me feel good don’t cut it. I understand that there are lots of drugs which do the same, but I don’t partake so don’t know for sure.

[Cheshire_Human]

@Tequila_Party

Timo, if you want to reach people and minister to their souls, hope they convert and further spread a gospel that you believe in, the way to do that is by living an exemplary and helpful life. Look at all this time you’ve spent on here. Look at all the time you’ve apparently spent memorizing scripture. And you’ve also apparently spent a great deal of time in church.

Now, if you were to reach me and get me to change to your viewpoint, none of those things would do it. No, what it would take would you being a humble servant. Someone who puts others needs above your own. Someone whose whole life is about helping, in such a way that it highlights the best of your God. If you spent all that time that I outlined above working at a soup kitchen, building homes for the poor and reading to the elderly, I’d be more apt to believe there was something more worthwhile going on than simply a fear of hell.

James 2:14-26 - New Tequila Party Version.