# Why don't people like the south? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 18, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010 "2017-11-18T18:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/161 "2017-11-23T15:22:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > How much time do you think the average Southerner actually spends thinking about the Confederacy and white supremacy? I’m a Civil War buff who used Jefferson Davis Highway and whose opthamologist was across the street from Robert E. Lee’s boyhood home, and even I didn’t spend much time thinking about it. The amount of people who seriously care about this issue on either side is minimal. How much time Southerners actually think about white supremacism is irrelevant. That so many continue to choose to use and revere white supremacist symbolism, and react so negatively to talk of trying to remove such symbols, shows the continued strong influence of that philosophy. I’m a Southerner, by the way. I was born in Georgia and grew up in Louisiana. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/162 "2017-11-23T15:29:56Z")
Name me just one instance of Southerners talking about “Southern heritage” or “Southern pride” or the like, where they’re not talking about racism. If that’s the way they identify themselves, then of course that’s how others are going to identify them. There are plenty of other aspects of Southern culture that Southerners legitimately should be proud of, but no Southerner ever seems to talk about them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/163 "2017-11-23T15:33:49Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > 1. In our area of NC, there are still four distinct seasons. She loves the weather and the relative lack of snow. She doesn’t like the fact that there are so few snowplows when it does snow. You have snowplows? Pulaski county, AR has a pickup with a dozer blade, a bed full of sand, and three guys with shovels. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/164 "2017-11-23T15:34:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Name me just one instance of Southerners talking about “Southern heritage” or “Southern pride” or the like, where they’re not talking about racism. If that’s the way they identify themselves, then of course that’s how others are going to identify them. > > There are plenty of other aspects of Southern culture that Southerners legitimately should be proud of, but no Southerner ever seems to talk about them. Oh, that’s not fair. I’ve seen talk about their dishes and politeness. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/165 "2017-11-23T16:42:52Z")
> [@Lickety\_Split](#): > > Actually I DO hear southerners speaking ill of Northern “Yankees” all the time, since I live in a large Southern city that has tripled in population over the past three decades. And the vast majority of our unwanted and unneeded immigrants have been from North of the Mason-Dixon Line. LOL. > … Not disagreeing with your overall point, but a question if I may … You say you’re in a “large Southern city” but your location says “The Southwestern US”. So which is it? The South and the Southwest may share some latitudes but not so much attitudes. At least as this long-time resident of the Southwest understands it, the Southwest begins exactly where the Southern attitudes end. IOW the “South” of the antebellum and Confederate mentality is geographically the Southeast. The Southwest is the cultural area to the west of where those southeastern attitudes fade out. As a separate matter, for darn sure more “South-like” attitudes persist into ruralia farther geographically north than they do in big cities. Conversely “North-like” attitudes persist farther geographically south(east) in big cities than they do in ruralia. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/166 "2017-11-23T22:39:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Name me just one instance of Southerners talking about “Southern heritage” or “Southern pride” or the like, where they’re not talking about racism. If that’s the way they identify themselves, then of course that’s how others are going to identify them. Just one? Here’s an online magazine called “Southern Roots” magazine, which looks like it’s out of Mississippi. [http://www.southernrootsmag.com](http://www.southernrootsmag.com) The articles are about a railroad built in 1905, a poem to a railroad built in 1859, a woman who wrote a cookbook for dogs, a historic haunted house, an article on family conflicts, and somebody who built a historic frontier cabin. TSU has their annual “Southern Heritage Classic”, which is pretty much about TSU vs Jackson State football, but also has a charity race and bunch of bands. “Southern Heritage” shows up in the name of everything from BBQ joints to furniture homes. There’sthe Southern Heritage Air Foundation, which is a museum of Louisiana aviation. [http://www.southernheritageair.org/Southern\_Heritage\_Air\_Foundation/Welcome.html](http://www.southernheritageair.org/Southern_Heritage_Air_Foundation/Welcome.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/167 "2017-11-23T23:00:06Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Why do many Northern women resent being call Ma’am? They do? I’m not exactly a Northerner but the retail trend in California is to call all women Miss. I’m fucking 60 years old and been married for 35 years, wearing my wedding ring, call me Ma’am or Ms (Mizz if you’re that Southern) but don’t call me Miss. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/168 "2017-11-23T23:20:49Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I’m going to defer to my wife, who retired from CT and moved here to NC about ten years ago. (Disclaimer: I’m from CT myself, but I’ve been down here almost 40 years and have a huge set of native-NC in-laws.) She says: > > 1. Many people are so friendly, saying “Hi!” (actually, many of them say “Hey!”) when they walk by, even if they have no idea who you are. YMMV, depending on where you are and what you look like, I’m sure. > > 2. She looks around in the grocery store at 10:00P and sees that we are the only white people there. Not at all unusual, except that this was never the case in her CT township. > > 3. Guns. I don’t have to say much about this. It’s just the culture, and a huge contrast to CT. > > 4. In our area of NC, there are still four distinct seasons. She loves the weather and the relative lack of snow. She doesn’t like the fact that there are so few snowplows when it does snow. > > 5. Very few insects, but some huge roaches and beetles. The various flies and mosquitoes were a much bigger problem in CT. > > 6. She was surprised at the number of concerts, shows, and museums. Of course, they can’t touch NY or some other areas, but she thought she would have to make do with Mule Days and the Hollerin’ Contest. > > Her biggest complaint? Pine pollen. Can’t leave the windows open until the first big rain after pollen season. I can’t tell whether this list is what she likes or doesn’t like about the South? 1. Seems like public friendliness is something she likes. 2. Nothing but white people in grocery stores she goes to late at night (sure not my experience of NC but whatever). Is this something she likes? 3.Gun culture. Like, dislikes, what? 3. warm weather but 4 seasons a plus. Gotcha. 4. different bugs. Can’t tell whether this is plus, minus, or just an observation. 5. Surprised that there are cosmopolitan cities in NC. Charlotte, population around 900,000. Yeah, there’s a few concerts I imagine. When I first visited the South these were my impressions: 1. lots of black people, who seemed a lot more at home than they do in California. Huge and obvious division between black and white economically. Did not see black and white mixing at all. 2. Giant shade trees on residential streets. 3. So hot and humid it felt like I was being buried under the air. Everything stuck to me and there was no way to get comfortable, ever. 4. Never could tell what women were thinking or saying. Very claustrophobic, like the humidity. My mother in law said, “Gosh, aren’t you cold?” (It’s 90 degrees). She meant, “Go put on a bra so you won’t embarrass me in front of my neighbors”. Did I know how to translate that? No. This was ongoing and not just from her. 5. Sense that if you stood still too long, kudzu would swallow you up. Greenery grew like monsters. In California, plants are always struggling to survive and dying of thirst. You get used to that. 6. First time I ever heard darky jokes. Also, black children referred to as pickaninnies. How quaint! Okay with me if I never cross the Mason Dixon line again. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/169 "2017-11-23T23:26:52Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > They do? > > I’m not exactly a Northerner but the retail trend in California is to call all women Miss. I’m fucking 60 years old and been married for 35 years, wearing my wedding ring, call me Ma’am or Ms (Mizz if you’re that Southern) but don’t call me Miss. I’m sorry, I have a cold. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/170 "2017-11-24T00:26:19Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > They do? > > I’m not exactly a Northerner but the retail trend in California is to call all women Miss. I’m fucking 60 years old and been married for 35 years, wearing my wedding ring, call me Ma’am or Ms (Mizz if you’re that Southern) but don’t call me Miss. How else do you pronounce Ms. besides mizz? Wikipedia gives 2 alternative, but I’ve only heard the first one in “the north” (west). ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/171 "2017-11-24T00:33:53Z")
0h you northerners don’t get out of the slavery and racist talk that easy. Ask the Irish, the Italians, and Jews. They were routinely disavowed and mistreated in the northern states. My Daddys people were Welsh indentured servants. He descended from a pair of brothers who were charged with paying off their disabled fathers debt in Wales. So its not all innocence in Yankee land. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/172 "2017-11-24T01:10:17Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > How else do you pronounce Ms. besides mizz? Wikipedia gives 2 alternative, but I’ve only heard the first one in “the north” (west). “Ms.” pronounced “Miz” seems to be the alternative to “Ma’am”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/173 "2017-11-24T01:11:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > IOW the “South” of the antebellum and Confederate mentality is geographically the Southeast. The Southwest is the cultural area to the west of where those southeastern attitudes fade out. “Confederate mentality”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/174 "2017-11-24T01:13:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because so many Southerners have chosen to wrap up their Southern identity with the Confederacy and white supremacist symbolism. It is more like people on messages boards hold us in contempt for things other people did 150 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/175 "2017-11-24T01:21:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > That’s good to know but what’s your point? > > Did you know NJ abolished the slave trade in 1804. Do you know how many slaves were left in NJ by 1860? It was [under 1000](https://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/1860a-10.pdf) and in 1865 the 13th amendment freed all 16 of the remaining slaves in NJ. Though that is not 100% accurate as some stayed effectively slaves due to apprenticeships. > ETA: Seriously, this is bothering me. **carnivorousplant** , I’ve known you the entire time I’ve been on this board and like your postings. I hope I am completely misunderstanding your post. New Jersey ratified the 13th amendment [January 23, 1866, after first rejecting it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Ratification_by_the_states) I am relieved to learn that it is not damning to be a slave state, but upon how many slaves were held. 🙂 Delaware was the other Northern slave state I was thinking off, ratified the 13th in 1901. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/176 "2017-11-24T01:41:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It is more like people on messages boards hold us in contempt for things other people did 150 years ago. I’m a Southerner too - in my experience, much of the criticism towards the South is about Confederate imagery, which was only revived in prominence in the early and mid 20th century in order to symbolize opposition to civil rights. And thus totally warranted, IMO. There’s no good reason to continue to celebrate imagery that came to prominence first to symbolize the fight to preserve slavery, and second to symbolize the fight against civil rights for black people. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/177 "2017-11-24T02:18:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m a Southerner too - in my experience, much of the criticism towards the South is about Confederate imagery, which was only revived in prominence in the early and mid 20th century in order to symbolize opposition to civil rights. And thus totally warranted, IMO. There’s no good reason to continue to celebrate imagery that came to prominence first to symbolize the fight to preserve slavery, and second to symbolize the fight against civil rights for black people. A good point. I think that the problem is testosterone poisoning. People generally take sides over foot ball teams and other irrelevant things, such as where they come from. How cold it is in Canada, how hot it is in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/178 "2017-11-24T02:27:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **What Exit?** : > > Oh, that’s not fair. I’ve seen talk about their dishes and politeness. Southern cooking is something that the South legitimately should be proud of. It’s the best cuisine on the continent. But do you ever see a statue of a bowl of grits outside of a courthouse? As for Southern politeness, if you scratch the surface, you’ll usually find that it’s just a euphemism for rudeness, racism, or both. When you’ve developed a culture where “bless your heart” is a vile attack, what you have is not “politeness”. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/179 "2017-11-24T02:51:22Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > snip > 6. First time I ever heard darky jokes. Also, black children referred to as pickaninnies. How quaint! > > Okay with me if I never cross the Mason Dixon line again. Holy Smokes, when the hell were you down there!?!? Also, what part of down south were you in? Who were you hanging around with? Old people born before 1950? When I lived in GA darky jokes and calling kids pickaninnies would have gotten you a physical beating, no matter who you were or who you were around. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010/180 "2017-11-24T03:03:11Z")
> [@guestchaz](#): > > Holy Smokes, when the hell were you down there!?!? Also, what part of down south were you in? Who were you hanging around with? Old people born before 1950? > > When I lived in GA darky jokes and calling kids pickaninnies would have gotten you a physical beating, no matter who you were or who you were around. Yes, older generation. Charlotte NC but they were from Richmond VA. The people my age didn’t talk that way but it was still bizarre. Like I was in a Faulkner novel or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-people-like-the-south/802010.md?page=10)