# Why don't quotes include nested quotes? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 3, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251 "2014-04-03T14:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/1 "2014-04-03T14:19:10Z")
Almost any interesting post on this board includes either a quote of another post, or a quote of an outside source. But if you reply to a post, even when you specify that you want to include its text, the quotes are not included, and you have to manually insert them yourself. I don’t have to do this on any other message board I use. Is this a deficiency of the software, or a conscious decision by the admins? And if the latter, why, oh why, was that decision made? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/2 "2014-04-03T14:29:21Z")
Misuse of nested quotes sometimes result in mangled tags. The Powers that Be decided that that particular sort of mangling was a bigger problem than the sort of mangling we get from not nesting quotes. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/3 "2014-04-03T14:30:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Misuse of nested quotes sometimes result in mangled tags. The Powers that Be decided that that particular sort of mangling was a bigger problem than the sort of mangling we get from not nesting quotes. I would think that there is a much higher likelihood of the tags getting messed up when we do it manually, than when the software does it. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/4 "2014-04-03T14:58:37Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I would think that there is a much higher likelihood of the tags getting messed up when we do it manually, than when the software does it. True, but that’s not what happened. The problems arose when people tried to edit nested quotes to remove ones they didn’t want, the attributions got messed up. Human error was a big problem, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/5 "2014-04-03T14:59:51Z")
Nested quotes were enabled for four months in 2010. > [@Quote Boxes Screwing Up](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quote-boxes-screwing-up/548139/1): > > Twice this week, the quote boxes in someone’s post has attributed a quote to me that was made by someone else. And just now, when I quoted someone, the box attributed someone else. See [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12724502&postcount=192) (the quote was actually made by **Spoke** , not by me), [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12729086&postcount=19) (quote made by **Bridget Burke** , not by me) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12730486&postcount=22) (quote made by **Chefguy** , not by **Bridget Burke** ). > > Something is up with the quote boxes. This did’t happen before. > [@Nested quotes have been discontinued](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nested-quotes-have-been-discontinued/557502/1): > > Based on mod/admin requests, the previously installed nested quotes function has been discontinued. > > Many quotes were being mis-attributed because posters were deleting the wrong {quote} tags when editing nested posts. Brackets in **xash** ’s post changed because they messed up the code. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/6 "2014-04-03T16:58:06Z")
In other words, the denizens of the Dope are too stupid to be allowed to have nested quotes? Can someone direct me to a smarter board? Jeez. If somebody messes up the quotes, then everybody can laugh at him, and he’ll be more careful after that. And there’s no real harm done, except to people so insecure that they think their reputations will be ruined by a misquote that they can easily show to be wrong. But why make more work for everybody just to prevent some minor problems from a minority of posters? Was the board really plunged into chaos during those four months, or was it just a few people squawking loudly about their injured aura of perfection? And I still don’t see why anyone who would care enough about the quoted material to edit it, wouldn’t be likely to insert the omitted quotes himself. I’ll take everyone’s word for it that the error rate was higher, but I doubt it was that much higher. How about leaving the default alone, but having an option to allow nested quotes, so people who don’t want to bother with them don’t have to? Or how about just making a preview mandatory? You type your post, you hit submit, and you see what it will look like, but you have to hit submit again to send it. It should be obvious if the quotes are messed up in the preview. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/7 "2014-04-03T17:07:14Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > In other words, the denizens of the Dope are too stupid to be allowed to have nested quotes? Can someone direct me to a smarter board? Hmm, you’d think there would be. But nope, nothing comes to mind. > [@](#): > > Jeez. If somebody messes up the quotes, then everybody can laugh at him, and he’ll be more careful after that. And there’s no real harm done, except to people so insecure that they think their reputations will be ruined by a misquote that they can easily show to be wrong. > > But why make more work for everybody just to prevent some minor problems from a minority of posters? Was the board really plunged into chaos during those four months, or was it just a few people squawking loudly about their injured aura of perfection? I agree that nested quotes are by themselves not an unreasonable feature to include in a board with as much back and forth as this one has. However, the mod that was used to implement them turns out to have a bug where nesting quotes from multiple sources screws up the attributions. That alone makes it a poor choice for this board, which takes quote attribution very seriously. If you know of a better mod that handles this correctly, let me know. I have a friend who could use it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/8 "2014-04-03T17:16:55Z")
Wait, quote nesting was the result of a modification? I would have thought it would be a standard feature, the default even. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/9 "2014-04-03T17:22:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, quote nesting was the result of a modification? I would have thought it would be a standard feature, the default even. Same here. As I said, it seems to be the default elsewhere. Even my golf board nests quotes automatically, and allows you to select quotes from several different posts and combine them all in one reply. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/10 "2014-04-03T17:25:43Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I agree that nested quotes are by themselves not an unreasonable feature to include in a board with as much back and forth as this one has. However, the mod that was used to implement them turns out to have a bug where nesting quotes from multiple sources screws up the attributions. That alone makes it a poor choice for this board, which takes quote attribution very seriously. If you know of a better mod that handles this correctly, let me know. I have a friend who could use it. Well, I guess that settles it. If there was a bug in the mod in 2010, then of course we’re helpless. Four years is way too short a time to expect someone to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/11 "2014-04-03T17:26:30Z")
The quote nesting debacle is what I think of every time a doper complains about some company or organization catering to the LCD. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/12 "2014-04-03T17:37:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, quote nesting was the result of a modification? I would have thought it would be a standard feature, the default even. What’s weird is that it was a standard feature of vBulletin at one point and they took it out. No idea why, or why they never put it back in. It would be much easier to handle correctly in the underlying software than as an after the fact mod. > [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well, I guess that settles it. If there was a bug in the mod in 2010, then of course we’re helpless. Four years is way too short a time to expect someone to fix it. Snark aside, what do you propose? You’ve been told the software doesn’t have this feature built in, and the only mod I’m aware of to add this functionality to our version of vBulletin has a bug in it. I just checked and the mod hasn’t been updated since I installed it. So…what do you want them to do? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/13 "2014-04-03T17:39:17Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Well, I guess that settles it. If there was a bug in the mod in 2010, then of course we’re helpless. Four years is way too short a time to expect someone to fix it. Too late to edit, but the more I think about “a bug in the mod,” the more unbelievable it seems. I was thinking that all that’s required to keep the quotes straight is making sure there’s a close quote for every open quote. That, or something very similar, is built into almost every compiler, syntax checker, and smart editor ever written. It’s the kind of thing you do in the first week of a freshman CS class. But you don’t even have to do that. All you have to do is just cut and paste the original (unformatted) post, because the open and close quotes are already there, in proper sequence. It seems like it would be harder to omit the quotes than to include them. And yet, we can’t solve this intractable bug. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/14 "2014-04-03T17:41:15Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Same here. As I said, it seems to be the default elsewhere. Even my golf board nests quotes automatically, and allows you to select quotes from several different posts and combine them all in one reply. When the conversation got complicated, editing the quote nests became tricky. When introduced, it seemed like a no-brainer, but it wasn’t. Hey, we tried. I imagine in boards that have [del]normal[/del] simpler conversations that this wouldn’t be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/15 "2014-04-03T17:41:55Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Snark aside, what do you propose? You’ve been told the software doesn’t have this feature built in, and the only mod I’m aware of to add this functionality to our version of vBulletin has a bug in it. I just checked and the mod hasn’t been updated since I installed it. So…what do you want them to do? I hesitate to ask, but has anyone asked vBulletin to fix it? And not taken “no” for an answer? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/16 "2014-04-03T17:44:08Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > When the conversation got complicated, editing the quote nests became tricky. When introduced, it seemed like a no-brainer, but it wasn’t. Hey, we tried. I don’t see what’s tricky about it, but fine. Limit the nesting to three or four levels. That would handle 90% of the need, and make the context pretty clear in 90% of the remainder. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/17 "2014-04-03T17:50:57Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I hesitate to ask, but has anyone asked vBulletin to fix it? And not taken “no” for an answer? If I read correctly, it’s a modification, not included as part of vBulletin but instead written by a 3rd party. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/18 "2014-04-03T17:52:59Z")
[Previous thread that explains what happened.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=582220&highlight=nested+quotes) ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/19 "2014-04-03T17:55:01Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > If I read correctly, it’s a modification, not included as part of vBulletin but instead written by a 3rd party. Good, because there are tons of third parties. Why give up after one try? There are probably a hundred people posting today who could fix it. If it’s in C++, I’m pretty sure _I_ could fix it. And if it’s not included with vBulletin, it should be. It’s the most natural way to run a board. Has anyone asked them to include it? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251/20 "2014-04-03T17:55:03Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > I hesitate to ask, but has anyone asked vBulletin to fix it? And not taken “no” for an answer? Just out of curiosity, how do you not take “no” for an answer in this situation? vBulletin software costs like $200 for a lifetime license. One customer jumping up and down isn’t going to do squat: they already have our money. In any case, they’re not going to go back and add features to version 3 of their software when they’re already on version 5. Now I can hear you now, thinking “well, shit, we just need to upgrade to verison 5, then!” The problem is version 5 sucks. It would cause way more problems than the lack of nested quotes is currently causing. You’d be unhappy. Accept that this message board has suboptimal software and try to move on with your life. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-quotes-include-nested-quotes/685251.md?page=2)