# Why don't red lights function as alternating stop signs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910 "2018-08-20T14:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/41 "2018-08-21T00:07:55Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > [emphasis mine] > FWIW, I know many many bicyclists who treat stop signs as if they are yield signs and red lights as if they are stop signs and quite a few have proposed that the law be changed to accommodate this (but only for bicycles). This is called an Idaho stop, because it’s the law in Idaho. Other states have tried to pass this, but without success, as far as I know. Here in Oregon, when it was proposed, a bunch of police chiefs and sheriffs came out and claimed it would cause more accidents. Which was mostly a lie. What they really objected to was losing a club to hold over cyclists. BTW, the cyclists blowing through red lights without stopping would still be illegal under this law, as would blowing through a stop sign when there’s cross traffic. A lot of people, when this is proposed, think that that’s is being made legal. We recently got the law passed that would allow cyclists and motorbikes to procede through a left turn red light if it appears it can’t detect the vehicle. The only problem with it is that it requires the rider to wait through three cycles of the go-straight light. This seems to assume that that is a fixed time which I don’t think it true. From my observation, if no traffic comes to go-straight lanes, they never get a green. At any rate, I know which traffic lights can’t detect my bike and if no cars come along to trip the sensor, I just wait for there to be no traffic and go then. I do this on straight-ahead situations as well as left turn. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/42 "2018-08-21T00:34:58Z")
I have seen crossings in SoCal that indicate where a bike is supposed to stop to trigger green light–it’s a white stripe with a bicycle icon in the middle of the lane. Don’t know how they work, I would have guessed induction–get the metal frame over the most sensitive spot. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/43 "2018-08-21T00:45:23Z")
Here in Minnesota, they just installed blinking yellow left turn arrows to remind people that they shouldn’t turn directly into oncoming traffic, so by all means, let’s not give them the idea that maybe they should drive through a red light if they don’t think cross traffic is going to be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/44 "2018-08-21T00:48:06Z")
Also in SoCal (maybe elsewhere too) it is common for 2-3 cars to complete a left turn after the light turns red, because the oncoming cars continue into the intersection after the light has turned; you could never turn left otherwise. I don’t think it’s legal but I think the cops will just wink at it because otherwise you could never make the turn. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/45 "2018-08-21T01:00:36Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > We recently got the law passed that would allow cyclists and motorbikes to procede through a left turn red light if it appears it can’t detect the vehicle. The only problem with it is that it requires the rider to wait through three cycles of the go-straight light. Are you sure? It seems from the bill that went into effect in 2016, left turn lights were part of the bill and after one full cycle, not three. > [@](#): > > (a) The driver approaches an intersection where there is a traffic control device showing a steady circular red signal, a steady red bicycle signal or a steady red arrow signal; > (b) The traffic control device is controlled by a vehicle detection device; > (c) The driver comes to a complete stop and waits for the traffic control device to complete > one full cycle; and [https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB533/Introduced](https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/SB533/Introduced) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/46 "2018-08-21T01:46:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And stupid. They cause damage to your car even when you slow down. I think they should be banned. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > No they don’t. You’re not slowing down enough, or your car is a total piece of junk that’s not road worthy. I agree. I need a cite that shows damage to cars when they properly slow. That shouldn’t be read to mean that speed bumps are always the best solution or even necessarily a good one. But I haven’t heard of excessive damage being the issue. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/47 "2018-08-21T02:37:16Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > I have seen crossings in SoCal that indicate where a bike is supposed to stop to trigger green light–it’s a white stripe with a bicycle icon in the middle of the lane. Don’t know how they work, I would have guessed induction–get the metal frame over the most sensitive spot. No, it’s the rims of the wheels. At least that’s how it works when you put your wheel on the large circle where they bury the induction loop. But if your rims don’t have enough metal, they don’t work for either one. That’s the case for an intersection near my house. At one time, I could put my tire on the circle and get a green. Then I had to replace the wheels on the bike and the new ones don’t have enough metal. They’ve even put stripes such as you describe, and they don’t work there either. It’s one of a couple intersections where I occasionally have to run the light. Not very often; there’s usually some traffic. > [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Are you sure? It seems from the bill that went into effect in 2016, left turn lights were part of the bill and after one full cycle, not three. You’re no doubt right. I was just going by what I heard in the news. I think three was the initial proposal, but it appears they changed it before voting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/48 "2018-08-21T03:18:49Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I agree. I need a cite that shows damage to cars when they properly slow. > > That shouldn’t be read to mean that speed bumps are always the best solution or even necessarily a good one. But I haven’t heard of excessive damage being the issue. Well, of course if you slow down to well belwo the speed limit, you’re safe. But at posted speeds, that can damage your cars: > **[Are speed humps effective?](https://www.reliance-foundry.com/blog/speed-humps-effective#gref)** > > Understanding how proper configuration and installation affect performance. \*Speed bumps measure up to 6 feet long, forcing serious speed reduction. Vehicles’ front wheels pass over the bump entirely before the rear wheels pass over—causing the driver to effectively experience two bumps. This requires drivers to slow to a near-stop to pass over them safely and comfortably. Speed hump precautions Although speed humps have been proven to reduce speed and make neighborhoods safer, some critics claim that they can cause damage to vehicles, increase emergency response time, and increase traffic noise. Fortunately, many of these issues can be mitigated through proper speed cushion planning. Vehicle damage There is potential for speed humps to damage the undercarriage of vehicles, particularly if the vehicles are lowered. There are several methods that urban planners can use to mitigate any potential damage: Placement Speed humps should be placed on level roads as a change in incline can make the hump functionally higher. Other considerations should include placement relative to intersections, driveways, manholes, streetlights, and curbs. Material Rubber and plastic speed humps cause less damage to vehicles. Rubber will compress under impact, and plastic will sustain damage before there is any damage to the car. Concrete and metal speed humps are more likely to cause damage because of their lack of flexibility. \* [http://www.iaea-online.org/news/2015/01/speed-bumps-cost-drivers-£250.aspx](http://www.iaea-online.org/news/2015/01/speed-bumps-cost-drivers-%C2%A3250.aspx) \*Speed bumps cost drivers £250 Motorists living in areas where roads are ‘calmed’ by speed bumps are more likely to have to pay an average £250 repair bill for broken suspension, cracked exhaust systems and smashed trim on their cars These are the findings of a national car leasing company that says local authorities should instead invest in alternative measures to slow down traffic rather than those which punish drivers. The [Flexed.co.uk](http://Flexed.co.uk) company says that many housing estates are still living with the legacy of ill-thought out speed bumps installed years ago that inflict regular damage on residents’ cars in attempts to make them drive slower. ‘Speed bumps are out-dated and it’s pretty much accepted that they don’t make a great deal of difference,’ said Flexed spokesperson Mark Hall. ‘Spend any amount of time on a road with old ‘full-width’ speed bumps, and you’ll see cars going hell for leather between them, only slowing down to cross the obstacle.’ • A study published by Warranty Direct in October 2014 found that the average bill for damage caused by speed bumps was £247, with drivers of some makes looking at bills of over £1,000. • Even cars with the most robust of suspension systems built by Honda, Toyota and Isuzu have a one-in-thirty chance of suffering suspension damage because of speed bumps and potholes, the same study said.\* [http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/Research/roadhump/](http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/Research/roadhump/) \*If not installed properly and property damage or personal injury occur, the installing agency may be held liable. In fact, many California courts have held public agencies liable for damage and/or injury resulting from both speed humps and speed bumps. \* [https://ascelibrary.org/doi/abs/10.1061/(ASCE)0733-947X(1985)111:4(410)](https://ascelibrary.org/doi/abs/10.1061/(ASCE)0733-947X(1985)111:4(410)) Abstract _Speed (road) bumps are controversial. Despite their effectiveness as a speed deterrent device, the use has not been widespread in the United States. A majority of traffic professionals are strongly opposed to the use of these bumps on public right‐of‐way. Liability and safety remain the primary concerns. The current trend is to use “humps” instead of “bumps” which are flatter._ ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/49 "2018-08-21T06:06:06Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > AFAIK, all large cities already use computers to regulate the timing of at least some intersections to accommodate for traffic. That includes timing so that if traffic is flowing at a given speed the succeeding lights on that street will turn (or stay) green to allow for as much forward movement as possible before stopping on major streets. > > If you change even one light to magically turn green for you, the effect ripples out in all directions to change the pattern on all side streets and the streets that they cross and the streets that those cross. From the engineer’s pov, providing optimal passage for many cars over a large area is far preferential to giving you a green light. You’re not an ambulance or fire truck. They can legitimately tie up opposing traffic. You can’t, and shouldn’t. Large cities? Ever driven in San Jose California. If they are timed they are timed to stop traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/50 "2018-08-21T06:13:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Here in Panama, when I squeak through an intersection at the possible last second on a yellow light, there are invariably three or four cars behind me that have gone through after it turned red. 😃 In San Jose it is so bad that they have changed the timing of the lights. at many intersections when the lights are changing for several seconds all light are red. Many a time I have slid through on the just red light and has 3 to 5 cars behind me come through, and I do not mean on my bumper behind me, the is a gap between cars. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/51 "2018-08-21T06:18:10Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I don’t do this when I cycle, so it kind of pisses me off when I’m driving. If a car must stop at a red light for safety reasons, then a bike should stop for all the same reasons. I was on my bike waiting at a red light just yesterday (with a couple of other cyclists) when another cyclist just blew right past us across four lanes of traffic that had a green light. That’s just the suburbs–it’s endemic in the city. Yes, it’s more taxing on a cyclist to start and stop, but when cyclists don’t obey the rules then it erodes respect from drivers. When I was ridding to and from work 30 years ago I kept track of others on bikes. And noticed if they were obeying the traffic laws. My count was normaly 90% did not. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/53 "2018-08-21T11:00:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Here in Panama, when I squeak through an intersection at the possible last second on a yellow light, there are invariably three or four cars behind me that have gone through after it turned red. 😃 Exactly the same here in Taiwan. It’s not safe stopping for “pink lights.” ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/54 "2018-08-21T12:25:44Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > When I was ridding to and from work 30 years ago I kept track of others on bikes. And noticed if they were obeying the traffic laws. My count was normaly 90% did not. And the number of motorists? Remember speeding, rolling through stops, failure to signal, unsafe lane changes, and not watching the road are all breaking traffic laws too, and it’s _much_ more dangerous when they do it. But whatever, 30 year old anecdotes are just as good as data nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/55 "2018-08-21T12:46:06Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I don’t do this when I cycle, so it kind of pisses me off when I’m driving. If a car must stop at a red light for safety reasons, then a bike should stop for all the same reasons. I was on my bike waiting at a red light just yesterday (with a couple of other cyclists) when another cyclist just blew right past us across four lanes of traffic that had a green light. That’s just the suburbs–it’s endemic in the city. Yes, it’s more taxing on a cyclist to start and stop, but when cyclists don’t obey the rules then it erodes respect from drivers. I never treat riding a bike on the road differently from driving a car. Sometimes people totally don’t see a bike. Would being T-boned by a car be better that way? I’ve noticed in Raleigh that in some places there are looong red lights if you’re not going the busiest way. That seems to make sense, but can be frustrating. I have to walk across one of those occasionally. I know it’s not really 15 minutes . . . When there just happens to be no cars coming I’m lame and still wait. Can I not wait 10 more seconds for some reason? ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/56 "2018-08-21T13:09:43Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I don’t [treat red lights as stop signs] when I cycle, so it kind of pisses me off when I’m driving. If a car must stop at a red light for safety reasons, then a bike should stop for all the same reasons. I was on my bike waiting at a red light just yesterday (with a couple of other cyclists) when another cyclist just blew right past us across four lanes of traffic that had a green light. That’s just the suburbs–it’s endemic in the city. Yes, it’s more taxing on a cyclist to start and stop, but when cyclists don’t obey the rules then it erodes respect from drivers. I agree, it pisses me off too. If you’ve already stopped for the red light, why do you care whether you start moving again in 5 seconds instead of 15? I think it’s silly to risk an accident just to save the extra 10 seconds that it would take to wait for the light to turn green. As for stop signs, the purpose is to make you pause and check for cross traffic before proceeding. At 12-15 mph, it’s easy to see the cross traffic (or lack thereof) several seconds before you reach the intersection, therefore it really isn’t necessary to stop and waste your momentum for no reason. IMHO, the cyclist should _ **at least** _ cease pedaling for a few seconds when approaching a stop sign. Even better, downshift and apply the brakes. But I’ll forgive a “rolling stop”. > [@dtilque](#): > > Here in Oregon [snip]… it requires the rider to wait through three cycles of the go-straight light. xray vision is correct. [Oregon law ORS 811.360(2)](https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/811.360) says one complete cycle of the light, not three. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/57 "2018-08-21T19:41:30Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > When I was ridding to and from work 30 years ago I kept track of others on bikes. And noticed if they were obeying the traffic laws. My count was normaly 90% did not. Yep, I was watching a San Jose bike rally and there was a group of young men, dressed all in black, with no lights, reflectors or anything. When I asked why, they replied- in all seriousness: “you can’t hit what you can’t see!” :eek::rolleyes: Cyclists rarely pay any attention to traffic laws, but then they bitch and moan and want taxpayer money wasted on bike lanes- which they refuse to use. In SF, they ride on the sidewalk instead of the bike lane. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/58 "2018-08-21T20:14:51Z")
Wow, just…wow. The stereotyping and outright bigotry on display here is beyond repulsive. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/59 "2018-08-21T21:33:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Cyclists rarely pay any attention to traffic laws, but then they bitch and moan and want taxpayer money wasted on bike lanes- which they refuse to use. In SF, they ride on the sidewalk instead of the bike lane. Much as bicycle riders often piss me off, in San Francisco so many cars are doubled parked in bicycle lanes I don’t blame them in some places. But it’s not a problem I’ve had as I’ve walked all over the city. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/60 "2018-08-21T21:52:32Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > When I was ridding to and from work 30 years ago I kept track of others on bikes. And noticed if they were obeying the traffic laws. My count was normaly 90% did not. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > And the number of motorists? Remember speeding, rolling through stops, failure to signal, unsafe lane changes, and not watching the road are all breaking traffic laws too, and it’s _much_ more dangerous when they do it. But whatever, 30 year old anecdotes are just as good as data nowadays. > [@Gedd](#): > > I never treat riding a bike on the road differently from driving a car. Sometimes people totally don’t see a bike. Would being T-boned by a car be better that way? > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, I was watching a San Jose bike rally and there was a group of young men, dressed all in black, with no lights, reflectors or anything. When I asked why, they replied- in all seriousness: “you can’t hit what you can’t see!” :eek::rolleyes: > > Cyclists rarely pay any attention to traffic laws, but then they bitch and moan and want taxpayer money wasted on bike lanes- which they refuse to use. In SF, they ride on the sidewalk instead of the bike lane. > [@jjakucyk](#): > > Wow, just…wow. The stereotyping and outright bigotry on display here is beyond repulsive. > [@Voyager](#): > > Much as bicycle riders often piss me off, in San Francisco so many cars are doubled parked in bicycle lanes I don’t blame them in some places. But it’s not a problem I’ve had as I’ve walked all over the city. **Moderating** Let’s drop the hijack about bicyclists. If you want to criticize bikers (or defend them) take it to the Pit. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910/61 "2018-08-21T22:11:45Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I agree. I need a cite that shows damage to cars when they properly slow. > > That shouldn’t be read to mean that speed bumps are always the best solution or even necessarily a good one. But I haven’t heard of excessive damage being the issue. It can be. There’s one right outside my house, which is on a hill, which I regularly hear vehicles coming down the hill scrape over. You can even see deep scratches and paint streaks on the top of the bump. It’s number 4 of a series of 5 bumps, so cars are already going pretty slow. My car’s high enough to go over fine, but it’s not just the boy racers with the lowered vehicles, it’s just too high, especially on a hill. The other issue with a lot of the UK ones is that, presumably because people complained about damage to cars, a lot of them are smaller ones, that if you go carefully, your car straddles the bump and you don’t go over. Like [these](https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.7324279,-3.523335,3a,75y,154.02h,70.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZ7dTCSJNL8J0xTOwJ8YvRg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). What this means is that motorcyclists wind up in the middle of the road trying to avoid them, and they’re incidentally a pain in a 3-wheeler. PS, a car hit the bump outside as I was typing. Didn’t sound like it was going fast. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-red-lights-function-as-alternating-stop-signs/819910.md?page=4)