# Why don't restaurant kitchens have automatic doors? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 4, 2012, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626 "2012-09-04T10:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/21 "2012-09-04T14:58:03Z")
the doors are slow and noisy. you couldn’t fill a table in the area near the door, people would leave before ordering. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/22 "2012-09-04T15:09:06Z")
The cost. Not just in installing, but in maintaining, too. Seriously, when was the last time you had to do any maintenance on your regular door? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/23 "2012-09-04T15:22:43Z")
Other than Star Trek, has anybody seen automatic doors that aren’t made of glass? High traffic choke-point filled with people carrying hard items that break glass. Slow mechanism. Noisy mechanism. Expensive mechanism. Sensitive mechanism. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/24 "2012-09-04T15:51:29Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > You could extend that argument to just about any door. Manual doors on shops also “worked just fine”, and yet the vast majority have automatic doors - and people walking in and out of shops aren’t usually juggling three plates of food at the same time. Thing is, the “vast majority” do not have automatic doors. Most large stores have them, which makes sense because they want customers to use carts and may have ADA concerns that automatic doors help with. They also have multiple doors, so if a door breaks down, they’re not completely screwed, they can wait for the repair guy to show up tomorrow. Restaurants use easy swinging, non latching doors. The servers know to look through the window before proceeding, or they have specific in and out doors. They know how to hold a tray of food and go through the door without dropping anything. Put in an automatic door and they’ll stand waiting to go through the door, or have to wave a hand at the eye that missed them, or the door will open constantly as the kitchen staff goes near the eye. The question is really, how much hassle/dropped food do we have to begin with, and how much hassle would automatic doors themselves prove to be? I don’t think the equation works out in favor of automatic doors. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/25 "2012-09-04T21:45:25Z")
Auto doors are way too slow for kitchen servers in two different ways. First - the approach speed. Auto doors have to know you’re coming - so either pressure plates, field-of-approach cameras, or proximity sensors. Have you seen how fast servers move on a hopping shift? None of those methods are really good for fast-moving traffic - they’d end up just locking the doors open to keep the traffic moving through, and now you have an entire area of the restaurant that can’t be seated due to unremitting kitchen noise. Second, the door opening speed. Have you seen how fast those servers get those swinging doors open? I have never seen an auto door that slams itself open at those rates of speed. The servers would have to check themselves when they got to the door to keep from running into it while they waited for it to finish opening, or they would be more likely to catch their trays or themselves if they tried to slip through before it was fully open. Busy kitchens either have in doors and out doors, or they’re built so that the architecture of the walls and corners cuts down the sound and they don’t have any doors at all. Neither of these approaches seem to be problems that need solving with auto doors. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/26 "2012-09-04T21:48:28Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Not sure why said kid couldn’t run and open a manual door if they so wished? > > Anyway, solution: staff have fobs in their pockets, like keyless entry doodads for cars. Waiter approaches, door opens. > > Come on guys, this is the 21st century. My waiter shouldn’t have to be bringing me my grub by pushing open a door with his butt. > > I think a sliding door would work best, as they tend to be faster than a swinging design, and also avoid the problem of swinging open into people’s faces. Maybe I’m a Luddite, but I can’t see any reason why your fob idea would be necessary. What would a door such as you describe add to to the restaurant that would be worth the expense? > [@Colophon](#): > > You could extend that argument to just about any door. Manual doors on shops also “worked just fine”, and yet the vast majority have automatic doors - and people walking in and out of shops aren’t usually juggling three plates of food at the same time. > > Let’s face it, in a high-end restaurant, the cost of a couple of automatic doors would be a drop in the ocean, and it seems like it would save a lot of hassle and dropped food. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/27 "2012-09-05T01:16:54Z")
Aren’t most of the arguments against automatic doors equally good arguments against having any sort of door at all? If there’s that much traffic, moving that quickly, then surely having them ever be closed at all would be a nuisance. And if you’re never going to close them, why have them? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/28 "2012-09-05T01:45:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Aren’t most of the arguments against automatic doors equally good arguments against having any sort of door at all? If there’s that much traffic, moving that quickly, then surely having them ever be closed at all would be a nuisance. And if you’re never going to close them, why have them? Many restaurants don’t have them. The main purpose is to block the odors and noise from the kitchen. But if a kitchen can be kept off of a hallway or something else that hides it, no door is the best approach. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/29 "2012-09-05T02:57:21Z")
But if the doors are frequently opened, the noise and odors are going to get out anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/30 "2012-09-05T03:27:13Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > You could extend that argument to just about any door. Manual doors on shops also “worked just fine”, and yet the vast majority have automatic doors - and people walking in and out of shops aren’t usually juggling three plates of food at the same time. Off the top of my head, the only stores I can think of in my town with automatic doors are large supermarkets and your larger retail stores (Wal Mart, Home Depot, Best Buy, etc). These stores all have very large amounts of very slow traffic. I can’t think of a single small shop in my town that has automatic doors. Anyway, **opmike’s** reasoning is exactly right, and I think most folks who have worked as servers would agree with him. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/31 "2012-09-05T03:43:47Z")
Donovan’s Steak and Chop House in Phoenix has automatic kitchen doors. It is a pretty high end restaurant in a nice area. You order several courses and chat about personal stuff for two hours and then talk business over coffee. No one is in a hurry there. They’re glass with aluminum frames but the glass is painted black from the inside. It keeps the place cool and dark and quiet. I believe Maestro’s in Scottsdale has automatic kitchen doors, too, but I have only been there 4 or 5 times 2 or 3 years ago so I don’t entirely recall. Most places (even nice places) would rather put in a swinging door for the one time cost of $100 instead of a $3,000 door than needs constant professional maintenance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/32 "2012-09-05T03:44:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But if the doors are frequently opened, the noise and odors are going to get out anyway. Not as much as if there were no doors or baffles at all. The doors swinging open and shut break up the noise, and the kitchen fans should keep a lot of odors inside. Another reason is the additional cost of cooling and heating. Kitchen exhaust fans can carry away a lot of expensive cold air, and draw excess hot air into the kitchen in winter. Some places that might do without doors don’t have the extra room for baffles. There are other secondary purposes, keeping nosy customers away, hosing down the kitchen, etc. But generally a restaurant owner wants a certain degree of isolation between the kitchen and dining room. Swinging doors are used where they are warranted. I don’t recall ever seeing automatic doors to a restaurant kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![Khendrask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3e96dc/32.png) [@Khendrask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khendrask)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/33 "2012-09-05T07:28:24Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Other than Star Trek, has anybody seen automatic doors that aren’t made of glass? High traffic choke-point filled with people carrying hard items that break glass. Slow mechanism. Noisy mechanism. Expensive mechanism. Sensitive mechanism. > > Why? Not to get off subject, but yes… many times. Hospitals, industrial plants, and elevators all have non-glass automatic doors. I still don’t see them as practical in a restaurant environment though, as they are slower in general then manual doors, and they have no cycle time. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/34 "2012-09-05T11:19:20Z")
Restaurants probably don’t have automatic doors due to the fact that they traditionally haven’t had automatic doors. I doubt much thought has been given to the question by most restaurant owners. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/35 "2012-09-05T12:20:53Z")
So automatic doors vs manual swinging: slower, noisier, less reliable, open when you don’t want them to, not open in time when you are trying to rush through, less traditional, more expensive … that first being the most important. Why would they be considered? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/36 "2012-09-05T12:46:17Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Why would they be considered? It’s the title of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/37 "2012-09-05T13:47:30Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Every automatic door on the market in the US has an emergency feature that allows the door to open manually when pushed with sufficient force. This force is adjustable, but is supposed to be set so that an average person can easily force the door open. Even the sliding glass ones have pins in the tracks that act like hinges so the doors will swing open if pushed. I assume that doors separating a kitchen from a public dining area would need to be an approved fire door. I know the OP is British, but here’s what the National Fire Protection Agency in the US (and adopted by Canada) has to say about power-operated fire doors. > [@](#): > > 8.4.2.1 General. > 8.4.2.1.1 Power-operated doors not equipped with standby or > emergency power shall be equipped with an integral or a separate > listed releasing device that shall automatically disconnect the > door from the control of the power operator at the time of a fire. > 8.4.2.1.2 The releasing device shall be activated at the time of > the fire by detectors or fusible links installed on both sides of > the wall and interconnected so that the operation of the single > detector or fusible link shall allow the door to be disconnected > and closed. > 8.4.2.1.3 If closing is achieved by power operation, standby or > emergency power shall be provided. > 8.4.2.1.4 The time delay from failure of normal power operation > to emergency power operation shall not exceed 10 seconds. > 8.4.2.1.5 The standby or emergency power source shall have > capacity to operate a minimum of 50 closing cycles of the door. > 8.4.2.1.6 If door opening also is achieved by power operation, > the standby or emergency power source shall have capacity to > operate a minimum of 50 opening and closing cycles of the door. > 8.4.2.2 Power operation shall not allow opening if temperatures > on either side of the door reach 500°F (260°C). Sounds financially prohibitive for a restaurant when plain old self-closing doors do the trick. Rules in the UK are probably similar. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/38 "2012-09-05T14:32:49Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > The waiters always have to open heavy swinging doors The doors I have seen are not heavy. They’re quite light and they tend to be hinged in such a way that they move with the slightest touch. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626/39 "2012-09-05T15:16:13Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > it seems like it would save a lot of hassle and dropped food. When I worked in the kitchen of a restaurant, I can’t recall any dropped food specific to the doors, and good god, having to redo any order would get the manager screaming at the cooks, so I’m sure I would remember, even this many years ago. When I was working night security, we had to rush somewhere and there was an automatic sliding door. My fellow guard bumped into the door because it wasn’t opening up fast enough and it knocked it out of off track. I’m going to go with “you don’t fix what isn’t broke.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-restaurant-kitchens-have-automatic-doors/633626.md?page=1)