# Why don't rich people run to a country with no extradition if they know US authorities are about to arrest them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 14, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520 "2022-12-14T17:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/21 "2022-12-14T20:44:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > But, if you piss off the powers that be you end in jail pretty fast. This is also, or perhaps especially, true for nearly all non-extradition countries. And those tend to be run by folks who are not likely at all to say “welp, the rules say I can’t do that. Fair cop, so I guess you got away with it this time” and even more likely to jail or kill people they don’t like. Or, if they’re feeling nice, just shipping them to the US in exchange for something they want. The Chinese imprisonment of their own billionaires and Russian defenestrations and Saudi dismemberments aren’t exactly a secret. The ROI is possibly better by hiring a legal team in the US with ill-begotten gains than using it to pay private security and huge government bribes in whatever country this would be. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/22 "2022-12-14T20:49:58Z")
What is it going to cost in bribes and baksheesh to remain in this foreign country? Certainly everyone is going to know that you’re rich. At the very least, the local criminal gangs are going to be after you. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/23 "2022-12-15T01:03:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > SBF has no powerful friends who are coming to his rescue. He was never a member of the club. I am willing to bet the government will do its best to bury him. How can you can this? He’s spent tens of millions buying politicians: > **[Sam Bankman-Fried’s Political Donations: What We Know](https://time.com/6241262/sam-bankman-fried-political-donations/)** > > SBF publicly donated mostly to Democrats, but claims he secretly also gave to the GOP. He may have violated campaign finance laws ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/24 "2022-12-15T01:07:26Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > How can you can this? He’s spent tens of millions buying politicians: “Everybody’s your brother until the rent comes due.” I think without that fat wallet he’s going to find that a lot of that political support is going to respond to calls for help with, “New phone, who dis?” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/25 "2022-12-15T01:12:48Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > How can you can this? He’s spent tens of millions buying politicians: « Bankman-Fried? Don’t think I’ve ever had anything to do with him. I’ve heard that he gave a lot of money to the other guys, so why should I help him? » (Dual-purpose line; works on either side of the aisle, apparently.) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/26 "2022-12-15T01:15:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There are probably some idyllic islands in Indonesia to hang out on. Indonesia is not a particularly easy place to settle permanently as a foreigner; the best way to do it is to marry a local and have your spouse sponsor you for a residency visa, which has to be regularly renewed. A person “on the run” might not be able to get the necessary paperwork completed. The alternative, which probably works if you can manage the logistics, is an unending set of bribes to the right people, so that you don’t get arrested and thrown into an Indonesian prison. Money does solve a lot of problems, so it’s doable. But one would need to be surprisingly savvy to make it all work. The guy who sold us our car insurance when we lived in Micronesia in the 1980s actually DID abscond to Indonesia, after embezzling $90,000 while working at the US Post Office on Guam. He got caught, though, and ended up doing prison time back in the US. So much for the lack of an extradition treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/27 "2022-12-15T02:54:17Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > So much for the lack of an extradition treaty. It seems, reading this thread, the trick to avoiding extradition is to be in a country that really likes to annoy the US and can’t really be bought off with a few tanks. So, Russia or China. Or, find a hook like being French and going to France or Israeli and going to Israel. Also, lots of money to bribe people doesn’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/28 "2022-12-15T03:16:48Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > How can you can this? He’s spent tens of millions buying politicians: I don’t know why so many people repeated this point so credulously and didn’t stop for 30 seconds to think about it. The money you use to buy politicians is not the money you already gave them since they already have it. You buy them with the promise of future money as long as they continue to support your agenda. SBF very visibly does not have future money so why would any of his previous money gain him any loyalty? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/29 "2022-12-15T07:51:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Or, find a hook like being French and going to France or Israeli and going to Israel. Israel extradites its citizens to the United States all the time - just not for capital crimes (in which case they’re tried in Israel). ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/30 "2022-12-15T08:57:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israel extradites its citizens to the United States all the time - just not for capital crimes I think many countries won’t extradite someone if they would face the death penalty. So if you’ve committed a lesser financial crime for which you are at risk of extradition, perhaps the best strategy is to also murder someone before you flee the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/31 "2022-12-15T09:13:44Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I think many countries won’t extradite someone if they would face the death penalty. So if you’ve committed a lesser financial crime for which you are at risk of extradition, perhaps the best strategy is to also murder someone before you flee the U.S.? Well, as I said, in Israel’s case they’ll just ship the witnesses to Israel and hold a murder trial there, so if you prefer 20 to life in an Israeli prison to a few years in an American one, I suppose you can do that. Usually, though, the American prosecutor will agree not to request the death penalty in return for extradition. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/32 "2022-12-15T09:15:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Usually, though, the American prosecutor will agree not to request the death penalty in return for extradition. So that argues for committing such a heinous murder that the prosecutor will be reluctant to do this… ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/33 "2022-12-15T09:17:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think living in Taiwan or China or Qatar or Saudi Arabia is better than jail if you have a lot of money. Taiwan does in fact typically extradite American fugitives. The lack of a formal extradition treaty merely means extradition won’t be _automatic_, and involves some red tape, but I’m not aware of a single instance of Taiwan refusing to hand over an American perp, especially given that Taiwan has strong incentive to maintain good relations with the USA. The lone exception would be instances where the perp also happens to hold Taiwanese citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/34 "2022-12-15T09:34:15Z")
An offical in the Taiwan ministry of justice explained how they work with countries they don’t have treaties with, but who are willing to work with them. If a wanted person shows up at a country, such as Japan, Japanese immigration officals pull them aside for “questioning.” They allow a Taiwanese offical to confiscate the suspect’s Taiwanese passport, and then because the suspect doesn’t have a valid passport, they cannot enter Japan and they are put on a plane back to Taiwan. That plane just happens to have Taiwanese police onboard. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/35 "2022-12-15T09:48:21Z")
ISTM a lack of a treaty makes it easier and more likely you will be sent back to the US (assuming for the moment that it is the US seeking your arrest). If a country has a treaty then they will presumably follow it. If a country has no treaty then the country does whatever it wants to. Barring some desire to piss off the US they will be likely to just hand you over. Counterintuitive but that seems to be the takeaway from this thread so far. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/36 "2022-12-15T10:29:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If a country has no treaty then the country does whatever it wants to. Barring some desire to piss off the US they will be likely to just hand you over. I mean, it depends on the country. Authoritarian countries can do what they want; other countries have to obey their own laws and respect the rulings of their own courts. In the latter countries, the government might not be the one who decides whether or not to extradite someone. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/37 "2022-12-15T10:40:42Z")
But politicians might want to send the message that their benefactors will be protected, to encourage others to give money in the future. If rich people think their politicians won’t have their back, then they may give less. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/38 "2022-12-15T10:52:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Israel extradites its citizens to the United States all the time - just not for capital crimes (in which case they’re tried in Israel). > [@Riemann](#): > > I think many countries won’t extradite someone if they would face the death penalty. So if you’ve committed a lesser financial crime for which you are at risk of extradition, perhaps the best strategy is to also murder someone before you flee the U.S.? Murder is usually a state-level crime in the US and not all US states have the death penalty. If you murder someone in Michigan or Wisconsin you’ll never be on death row so extradition from those countries still might happen if you won’t be facing the death penalty for a particular crime in a particular state. I guess the solution would be to murder someone in Texas on your way out of the country. And hope that the DA is so bloodthirsty they aren’t willing to waive the death penalty in return for extradition. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I dunno…I think living in Taiwan or China or Qatar or Saudi Arabia is better than jail if you have a lot of money. There are probably some idyllic islands in Indonesia to hang out on. As a practical matter for half the population, I don’t think an independent woman has a ghost of a chance of seeking refuge in a place like Saudi Arabia. Not sure how easily a lone woman can get by in Indonesian. ranted, we’re usually talking about men when it comes to crime, but anyone who isn’t a cishet male is going to have even fewer options. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/39 "2022-12-15T11:11:49Z")
  nvm   ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/40 "2022-12-15T11:36:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I mean, it depends on the country. Authoritarian countries can do what they want; other countries have to obey their own laws and respect the rulings of their own courts. In the latter countries, the government might not be the one who decides whether or not to extradite someone. Not necessarily. The Zimbabwean Courts were a repeated obstacle for Mugabe for instance. Having a treaty lays down set procedures and (in theory at least) the process is free from arbitrary and capricious acts. Bribing His Excellency, the President may keep you away from being extradited, but if say your case ends up before a judge who dislikes the President politically and has an even dimmer view of your purported crimes, that may not matter much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520.md?page=3)