# Why don't rich people run to a country with no extradition if they know US authorities are about to arrest them? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 14, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520 "2022-12-14T17:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/41 "2022-12-15T12:11:53Z")
Rich people do make a run for it quite often. Not the USA, but Ghosn famously did it a few years ago and it’s easier if you have multiple passports in the right countries like he did. Trouble is, you may not have much time to prepare so you are going to lose your homes, cars and bank accounts. And that country is off limits to you for the foreseeable future. All international travel becomes risky now because you don’t know what agreements have been arranged between your old home and any new state. It could be a quite limiting lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/42 "2022-12-15T12:12:05Z")
That doesn’t really contradict what I was saying - if a country is still subject to the rule of law, then by definition it’s not completely authoritarian. As with everything, of course, it’s a matter of degree. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/43 "2022-12-15T12:24:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Usually, though, the American prosecutor will agree not to request the death penalty in return for extradition. Yes, this is standard practice in Canada, since we have regular cross-border interactions with the « other country that has the death penalty » (hint: there’s generally only one that meets our extradition standards, since we don’t extradite to places like Belarus). It’s a constitutional requirement that we don’t extradite someone who might face the death penalty, so the « other country » has to give assurances that they will not seek the death penalty as a condition of extradition. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/44 "2022-12-15T12:30:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Counterintuitive but that seems to be the takeaway from this thread so far. Yes, every country has the sovereign power to kick someone out of their country. The less law-abiding the country is, the more unpredictable that process might be. Will depend on local politics and government. Extradition treaties evolved in countries governed by the rule of law to provide a consistent legal framework for one country to apply to have a person extradited from the other. But a treaty is just a different way for a country to exercise its sovereign power to extradite. It’s not the source of that sovereign power. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/45 "2022-12-15T12:54:07Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Bernie Madoff lost a lot of very rich people a lot of money. He was in jail very fast as these things go. Sure. You don’t shit where you eat. If he’d stuck to bilking regular folks, he probably would’ve been fine. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/46 "2022-12-15T13:17:01Z")
If push comes to shove, one could always assassinate the person and make it look like an accident or a suicide. Sure, there would be on line theories and accusations, but most people would simply view them as yet more wild eyed conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/47 "2022-12-15T13:36:59Z")
I pet conspiracy theory I have with no evidence whatsoever is that Ken Lay faked his death. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/48 "2022-12-15T13:44:33Z")
> Convicted on 10 felony counts in 2006 — a verdict that he said at the time left him “shocked” — Lay **died of a heart attack** six weeks later while awaiting sentencing. Because he never had the chance to appeal the verdict, his convictions were vacated by the court Hmmm … How convenient! 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/49 "2022-12-15T14:14:14Z")
I think you guys are over thinking this a bit. If your goal is to get out of the US (or wherever) and be able to set up a lavish lifestyle, while flipping of the country you are fleeing from, then your options are indeed limited. But if you make it to Cyprus, you can buy a Golden Passport. This opens up all the EU countries and there are oh so many ways to live a very comfortable life if you just play it safe: - Incorporate a company in Malta. Make sure your name is not on any of the documents. - Make that company handle all your affairs, but not in Malta. Rent a villa in Southern France, Portugal or Italy. Let the company lease your cars. - Never ever use a CC in your own name. Use the Malta company card. - Spend summers in the Adriatic sea (very nice climate) on a rented yacht (surprisingly cheap). - If possible, avoid air travel. If you’ve managed to set up the Cyprus/Malta part of it all before someone comes looking, you’ll be much harder to find. Crossing borders with a car in Europe is about as dramatic as crossing state borders in the US. You won’t be tracked on most ferries. - Germans are sticklers for privacy. I know the Swiss are known for this, but they are not EU. For proof, try Google Maps for Germany outside Berlin/Hamburg/Munich and switch to sat view. - Spain has a population of just under 40M. Pre pandemic they had about 70M tourists per year. There are more foreigners on La Rambla than there are natives. Seeing a foreign guy with money to spend will not raise any eyebrows. And so on. I think @Cervaise will back me up that if you just keep a low profile, not living in austerity mind you, and have enough money, there are endless opportunities to live a very comfortable life as a permanent “tourist” by sort of vagabonding around the EU, and never be bothered by the law. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/50 "2022-12-15T16:07:22Z")
Even if there is an extradition treaty, there can be limits. For example, IIRC Brazil will not extradite someone married to a Brazilian national. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/51 "2022-12-15T18:24:24Z")
Most of the time, a wealthy man can beat **any** charge, if he throws money at it. The Courthouse is an auction block, for Lady Justice’s @$$. 👹 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/52 "2022-12-16T02:21:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > Israel extradites its citizens to the United States all the time - just not for capital crimes (in which case they’re tried in Israel). > > > [@Riemann](#): > > > > I think many countries won’t extradite someone if they would face the death penalty. So if you’ve committed a lesser financial crime for which you are at risk of extradition, perhaps the best strategy is to also murder someone before you flee the U.S.? > > Murder is usually a state-level crime in the US and not all US states have the death penalty. If you murder someone in Michigan or Wisconsin you’ll never be on death row so extradition from those countries still might happen if you won’t be facing the death penalty for a particular crime in a particular state. > > I guess the solution would be to murder someone in Texas on your way out of the country. And hope that the DA is so bloodthirsty they aren’t willing to waive the death penalty in return for extradition. > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > I dunno…I think living in Taiwan or China or Qatar or Saudi Arabia is better than jail if you have a lot of money. There are probably some idyllic islands in Indonesia to hang out on. > > As a practical matter for half the population, I don’t think an independent woman has a ghost of a chance of seeking refuge in a place like Saudi Arabia. Not sure how easily a lone woman can get by in Indonesian. > > ranted, we’re usually talking about men when it comes to crime, but anyone who isn’t a cishet male is going to have even fewer options. Totally agree. But the context of this question is Sam Bankman-Fried, and he appears to be a cishet male. He’s pretty young. I doubt he’ll actually be in prison for life, and i doubt he wants to live in hiding all his life, either. Returning to the US, hiring the best lawyers he can, and hoping to actually be free in 10-15 years doesn’t seem like a crazy choice to me. But also, he was planning to testify in front of Congress. I doubt he expected to be arrested just yet. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/53 "2022-12-16T02:26:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Another side to the psychology may be something like “I’m so cool and so smart they can’t hammer me.” This seems to have bene particularly true of Bankman-Fried, who kept giving interviews and publicly stating evidence that will end up being used against him. He seemed weirdly oblivious to the jeopardy he was in. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/54 "2022-12-16T02:39:53Z")
[https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bankman-fried-s-harsh-bahamas-jail-could-shift-his-extradition-stance-1.1859392](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/bankman-fried-s-harsh-bahamas-jail-could-shift-his-extradition-stance-1.1859392) > [@](#): > > The grim conditions FTX founder Sam Bankman-Fried is encountering in the Bahamas prison where he’s currently being held could change his attitude on extradition to face fraud charges in the US. > > At Bankman-Fried’s first court appearance on Tuesday, his lawyer said he planned to fight extradition. But that was before the judge denied Bankman-Fried’s request to be released on $250,000 cash bail and an ankle monitor to track his movements and ordered him taken into custody at the Bahamas Department of Correctional Services facility, commonly known as Fox Hill. > > Despite its bucolic name, Fox Hill is known for overcrowding, poor nutrition, inadequate sanitation and substandard medical care, according to a 2020 US State Department report. The report described rat and maggot infestation as well as tiny cells with only buckets for toilets. > … > Houston lawyer Douglas McNabb agreed. Losing a bail hearing often “causes a defendant to rethink whether they want to appeal the case or not because they don’t want to be sitting in a Bahamian jail,” he said. “That’s a decision he’s going to have to make.” ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/55 "2022-12-16T03:11:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I dunno…I think living in Taiwan or China or Qatar or Saudi Arabia is better than jail if you have a lot of money. There are probably some idyllic islands in Indonesia to hang out on. Yeah it’s funny in discussions like this, where people have an idea of living in a middle-income country as necessarily involving a massive drop in quality of life. Poorer country, so everything’s…poor…right? It’s not like that at all. I lived in Shanghai for 8 years and the two words that come to mind are “modern” and “opulent”. Much more so that anywhere I’ve been in Europe. e.g. scroll through these examples of Shanghai [architecture](https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shanghai+architecture&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjh8sCXk_37AhWZgM4BHT52DPkQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=shanghai+architecture&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIFCAAQgAQyBQgAEIAEMgYIABAFEB4yBggAEAUQHjIGCAAQBRAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjIGCAAQCBAeMgYIABAIEB4yBggAEAgQHjoECCMQJzoHCAAQgAQQGFCfBljLE2CzFWgAcAB4AIABTYgBvQaSAQIxM5gBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=wN-bY-GSI5mBur4PvuyxyA8&bih=881&biw=1600&hl=en) And of course, it almost doesn’t need to be said, but although my salary was much lower in China than here in the UK, my buying power was much, much greater. (Obviously right now it’s not a great destination because of the covid FUBAR, but it’s not that long ago that the roles were reversed. Anyway, it’s not relevant here) So, yeah, if he could make it to a middle-income country like that, and had reasonable belief he would be treated as a regular tourist / businessperson, then hell yeah it’s better than prison. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/56 "2022-12-16T06:18:12Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah it’s funny in discussions like this, where people have an idea of living in a middle-income country as necessarily involving a massive drop in quality of life. Poorer country, so everything’s…poor…right? That’s not the point. > [@Mijin](#): > > So, yeah, if he could make it to a middle-income country like that, and had reasonable belief he would be treated as a regular tourist / businessperson, then hell yeah it’s better than prison. Of course, but you’re glossing over the conditional “would be treated as a regular tourist / businsessperson” when _that’s_ the entire issue. You’re in legal jeopardy, a fugitive from justice, you can’t just apply for a visa to live indefinitely like a wealthy Western visitor in a luxury apartment in Shanghai. You have the _money_ to live like that, but you’re looking at entering the country illegally, presumably misrepresenting yourself as a tourist, or on a fake passport, and then what? With most of the countries that might not extradite you, the rule of law is unreliable, and you face a very uncertain and risky future in a place where you cannot be confident of your rights or of any concept of due process, and where prison conditions are likely far worse than the U.S. or Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/57 "2022-12-16T12:47:56Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Of course, but you’re glossing over the conditional “would be treated as a regular tourist / businsessperson” when _that’s_ the entire issue. I’m not “glossing over” the conditional, I **explicitly** limited what I was saying to only be talking about what those countries were like as destination. We’re 56 posts into this thread, and it’s MPSIMS…it’s OK for people to address side topics. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2022, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/58 "2022-12-17T12:26:00Z")
Some really Americanitus suffering individual upthread said “cishet males” would find it easiest. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520/59 "2023-03-22T15:14:54Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Most of the time, a wealthy man can beat **any** charge, if he throws money at it. Maybe in America, not so in many other places. In Japan, rich means nothing when it comes to criminal charges. What matters is political power. If you are well connected, then you can escape justice. Not so if you are just rich. This is because the legal system doesn’t work the same way in Japan as it does in the US. Here in Japan, Judges are on the side of the prosecutors and do not suffer career-wise if they don’t apply the letter of the law because the letter of the law is vague and there is very little notion of judicial precedent and no real case law to speak of. Also because defense attorneys (all attorneys) have zero power in or outside of court. The best way to view a Japanese lawyer is as someone who can’t give you good advice but can write up a legal document to be filed with the court, and can explain it in greater detail in court if asked. Did you know that Japanese lawyers are legally not allowed to give you business advice? They are also legally not allowed to be corporate board members unless they receive special dispensation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-rich-people-run-to-a-country-with-no-extradition-if-they-know-us-authorities-are-about-to-arrest-them/976520.md?page=2)