# Why don't states use nitrogen chambers for the death penalty?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [March 8, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698 "2022-03-08T20:23:35Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/61 "2024-01-27T01:00:49Z")
I totally forgot I started this thread. I’ve changed my mind and now I’m against this method.
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/62 "2024-01-27T02:21:25Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Gurney was shaking, he had violent tremors.
Considering that he was not wanting to die, the violence was probably deliberate or a panic reaction.
22 minutes is concerning though. It shouldn’t have taken anywhere near that long.
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### Author:  [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/63 "2024-01-27T02:25:41Z")
> [@Projammer](#):
>
> Considering that he was not wanting to die, the violence was probably deliberate or a panic reaction.
How many people go into a death penalty situation wanting to die? I think whoever goes in has a very valid reason to have a panic reaction or do something deliberate. Wouldn’t you?
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/64 "2024-01-27T02:28:07Z")
Yeah, what a wuss! Gets upset just because people are trying to kill him.
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/65 "2024-01-27T02:33:15Z")
Not arguing that point at all. I was just pointing out that the article could be interpreted that the violence could be an involuntary reaction to the gas other than panic.
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### Author:  [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/66 "2024-01-27T02:36:45Z")
Not sure of your stance here, but I think you are saying this was a very inhumane way to kill someone. Correct?
Also, the US should not be executing people. Full stop.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/67 "2024-01-27T03:27:10Z")
> [@Projammer](#):
>
> 22 minutes is concerning though.
It would be concerning if it was true, but it wasn’t. He shook for about two minutes, probably because he was holding his breath. He then breathed deeply for several minutes longer. And then they continued for five minutes past a flatline on the EKG to be sure he was dead.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/68 "2024-01-27T03:35:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> He shook for about two minutes, probably because he was holding his breath
That doesn’t match the witnesses’ accounts:
> [@](#):
>
> Smith writhed and convulsed on the gurney. He took deep breaths, his body shaking violently with his eyes rolling in the back of his head.”
>
> Roney’s report continued: “Smith clenched his fists, his legs shook … He seemed to be gasping for air. The gurney shook several times.”
Taking deep breaths and gasping for air is not consistent with holding one’s breath.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/69 "2024-01-27T03:43:21Z")
And another witness, the priest who was in the killing room:
> [@](#):
>
> Hood claimed that while the prison authorities assured that the method would result in instant death, the actual scene of the execution could not be far from it.
>
> “They said all along that this was going to be nearly instantaneous. They were told this is going to be quick, easy and painless. They kept saying this is the most humane way society has ever figured out how to execute people. That he would be gone, unconscious, in seconds. What we saw last night was minutes, minutes, and minutes of a horror show," he said, adding that Smith looked like a “fish out of water, flapping over and over again.”
> **[He Flapped Like "Fish Out Of Water": Witness Recounts US Nitrogen Execution](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/he-flapped-like-fish-out-of-water-witness-recounts-us-nitrogen-execution-4939889)**
>
> Convicted murderer Kenneth Eugene Smith became the first man in the US to be executed with nitrogen gas, a controversial method that was condemned by human right activists as well as the United Nations and White House.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/70 "2024-01-27T03:45:50Z")
And yet:
> “It appeared that Smith was holding his breath as long as he could,” the Alabama corrections commissioner, John Hamm, later told a press conference.
So who’s correct? One would expect some writhing and shaking from someone trying to hold their breath as long as possible. And perhaps some interspersed gasping. Regardless, that didn’t go on for 22 minutes.
Perhaps Hamm has some self-interest here in downplaying the events. But I might suggest the same for the prisoner’s “spiritual advisor” in the other direction.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/71 "2024-01-27T03:51:27Z")
Also, Hood was either misinformed or lying about it supposedly being instantaneous. The protocol requires that it take at least 15 minutes, or 5 minutes past flatlining.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/72 "2024-01-27T12:02:53Z")
As I wrote in the Pit thread, I have totally changed my mind about this method. I had been thinking about people who accidentally die in industrial accidents, and their deaths are, well, peaceful. But, they don’t know what’s happening. Here, you have a terrified prisoner knowing that he’s being killed, desperately trying to hold his breath until he can’t any longer. So, that’s going to be a minute or two of terror, at least, before he has to give in, knowing that doing so will be the end. Pretty horrifying.
I think the DP should really be quick and painless, and if that means gruesome, then that’s fine. Bullet to the back of the head or guillotine are quick and painless. There’s no reason we should be hiding the reality of killing someone by trying to make it seem quiet and peaceful. Or, even better, maybe we should join the ranks of most of the rest of the world and abolish it.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/73 "2024-01-27T12:13:21Z")
Maybe they should sentence the convicted to watch a playoff game in Kansas City?
(Too soon?)
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/74 "2024-01-27T12:19:07Z")
Haha! Give them some fentanyl, set them out in the cold, probably not a bad way to go.
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/75 "2024-01-27T13:48:25Z")
I’m not in favor of the death penalty.
But that said (and I’m sure there are threads about this), at some point isn’t firing squad the least awful available option?
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### Author:  [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/76 "2024-01-27T14:13:28Z")
I used to be in favor of the death penalty, back when I believed the legal system was about justice, but increased awareness of reality has changed that.
However, so long as we are killing people, I think nitrogen works fine so long as it’s done competently and the person doesn’t resist. I question the competence of this method. You’d think it’d be hard to screw up ‘lock person in airtight space, flood it with nitrogen’, but apparently these people have done so. But it also doesn’t help that this individual definitely resisted. If a person chooses to hold their breath, that’s on them.
I certainly would prefer, if it was me, to be killed by nitrogen than the horrifying and clearly inhumane injection method.
That said, if it was my choice what method would be used for executions (assuming of course I can’t stop them entirely) I would actually go with an explosive charge just strong enough to turn the entire head into fine mist. This absolutely and completely makes sure the person doesn’t feel it coming. And the mess it creates I’d say is a plus, since it drives home the reality of what has been done to the observers. Despite this being the definitely least painful method of execution though, the mess guarantees they won’t do it. It doesn’t matter if the prisoner doesn’t feel a thing, it’s icky and messy for the people doing it, and they will prioritize their comfort over the suffering of the prisoner.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/77 "2024-01-27T14:42:59Z")
> [@Mnemnosyne](#):
>
> However, so long as we are killing people, I think nitrogen works fine so long as it’s done competently and the person doesn’t resist.
I don’t get this. The person struggles and holds their breath, cries or whatever and that is the fault of the nitrogen method which by all accounts is painless and you just fall asleep? Sounds like that is the prisoner making it an issue and not an issue with the the method.
> [@RitterSport](#):
>
> Bullet to the back of the head or guillotine are quick and painless.
There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that a head can remain conscious for a few seconds after being lopped off. If true, that seems tortuous.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/78 "2024-01-27T15:25:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that a head can remain conscious for a few seconds after being lopped off. If true, that seems tortuous.
Didn’t a victim of the guillotine promise to keep blinking for as long as possible, and managed it for several seconds post decapitation?
Ah yes, it is accredited to esteemed scientist Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier
> **[THE BLINKING LAVOISIER EXPERIMENT — Steemit](https://steemit.com/philippines/@lapaer06/the-blinking-lavoisier-experiment)**
>
> Can you keep blinking after your head is cut off? (No! Yes. Maybe?) Not sure? Okay, let’s read the story about the… by lapaer06
And since that one is called into doubt, there is also the supposed reaction of Charlotte Corday’s head after it was slapped post mortem, among others.
> **[Can a Severed Head Live On?](https://www.livescience.com/39219-can-severed-head-live.html)**
>
> Centuries-old tales have described severed heads that seemed to live for a few seconds — blinking, changing expressions, even attempting to speak. Compelling as these stories may be, many physicians would call this horrifying possibility highly...
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### Author:  [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/79 "2024-01-27T16:11:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> I don’t get this. The person struggles and holds their breath, cries or whatever and that is the fault of the nitrogen method which by all accounts is painless and you just fall asleep? Sounds like that is the prisoner making it an issue and not an issue with the the method.
You must’ve missed or not understood what I meant at the end of the paragraph: if a person chooses to hold their breath, that’s on them. I don’t consider this a problem with the method, it’s something that can make it more difficult, but it’s the choice of the person being killed, not anything about the method.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-states-use-nitrogen-chambers-for-the-death-penalty/960698/80 "2024-01-27T16:12:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> I don’t get this. The person struggles and holds their breath, cries or whatever and that is the fault of the nitrogen method which by all accounts is painless and you just fall asleep? Sounds like that is the prisoner making it an issue and not an issue with the the method.
If someone was putting a mask on you that will definitely kill you, I imagine you’ll try and hold your breath, struggle, etc. I’m not going to put that on the prisoner. It’s human nature to try and not die.
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