I totally forgot I started this thread. I’ve changed my mind and now I’m against this method.
Considering that he was not wanting to die, the violence was probably deliberate or a panic reaction.
22 minutes is concerning though. It shouldn’t have taken anywhere near that long.
How many people go into a death penalty situation wanting to die? I think whoever goes in has a very valid reason to have a panic reaction or do something deliberate. Wouldn’t you?
Yeah, what a wuss! Gets upset just because people are trying to kill him.
Not arguing that point at all. I was just pointing out that the article could be interpreted that the violence could be an involuntary reaction to the gas other than panic.
Not sure of your stance here, but I think you are saying this was a very inhumane way to kill someone. Correct?
Also, the US should not be executing people. Full stop.
It would be concerning if it was true, but it wasn’t. He shook for about two minutes, probably because he was holding his breath. He then breathed deeply for several minutes longer. And then they continued for five minutes past a flatline on the EKG to be sure he was dead.
That doesn’t match the witnesses’ accounts:
Taking deep breaths and gasping for air is not consistent with holding one’s breath.
And another witness, the priest who was in the killing room:
And yet:
“It appeared that Smith was holding his breath as long as he could,” the Alabama corrections commissioner, John Hamm, later told a press conference.
So who’s correct? One would expect some writhing and shaking from someone trying to hold their breath as long as possible. And perhaps some interspersed gasping. Regardless, that didn’t go on for 22 minutes.
Perhaps Hamm has some self-interest here in downplaying the events. But I might suggest the same for the prisoner’s “spiritual advisor” in the other direction.
Also, Hood was either misinformed or lying about it supposedly being instantaneous. The protocol requires that it take at least 15 minutes, or 5 minutes past flatlining.
As I wrote in the Pit thread, I have totally changed my mind about this method. I had been thinking about people who accidentally die in industrial accidents, and their deaths are, well, peaceful. But, they don’t know what’s happening. Here, you have a terrified prisoner knowing that he’s being killed, desperately trying to hold his breath until he can’t any longer. So, that’s going to be a minute or two of terror, at least, before he has to give in, knowing that doing so will be the end. Pretty horrifying.
I think the DP should really be quick and painless, and if that means gruesome, then that’s fine. Bullet to the back of the head or guillotine are quick and painless. There’s no reason we should be hiding the reality of killing someone by trying to make it seem quiet and peaceful. Or, even better, maybe we should join the ranks of most of the rest of the world and abolish it.
Maybe they should sentence the convicted to watch a playoff game in Kansas City?
(Too soon?)
Haha! Give them some fentanyl, set them out in the cold, probably not a bad way to go.
I’m not in favor of the death penalty.
But that said (and I’m sure there are threads about this), at some point isn’t firing squad the least awful available option?
I used to be in favor of the death penalty, back when I believed the legal system was about justice, but increased awareness of reality has changed that.
However, so long as we are killing people, I think nitrogen works fine so long as it’s done competently and the person doesn’t resist. I question the competence of this method. You’d think it’d be hard to screw up ‘lock person in airtight space, flood it with nitrogen’, but apparently these people have done so. But it also doesn’t help that this individual definitely resisted. If a person chooses to hold their breath, that’s on them.
I certainly would prefer, if it was me, to be killed by nitrogen than the horrifying and clearly inhumane injection method.
That said, if it was my choice what method would be used for executions (assuming of course I can’t stop them entirely) I would actually go with an explosive charge just strong enough to turn the entire head into fine mist. This absolutely and completely makes sure the person doesn’t feel it coming. And the mess it creates I’d say is a plus, since it drives home the reality of what has been done to the observers. Despite this being the definitely least painful method of execution though, the mess guarantees they won’t do it. It doesn’t matter if the prisoner doesn’t feel a thing, it’s icky and messy for the people doing it, and they will prioritize their comfort over the suffering of the prisoner.
I don’t get this. The person struggles and holds their breath, cries or whatever and that is the fault of the nitrogen method which by all accounts is painless and you just fall asleep? Sounds like that is the prisoner making it an issue and not an issue with the the method.
There is some evidence, though not conclusive, that a head can remain conscious for a few seconds after being lopped off. If true, that seems tortuous.
Didn’t a victim of the guillotine promise to keep blinking for as long as possible, and managed it for several seconds post decapitation?
Ah yes, it is accredited to esteemed scientist Antoine-Laurent de Lavoisier
And since that one is called into doubt, there is also the supposed reaction of Charlotte Corday’s head after it was slapped post mortem, among others.
You must’ve missed or not understood what I meant at the end of the paragraph: if a person chooses to hold their breath, that’s on them. I don’t consider this a problem with the method, it’s something that can make it more difficult, but it’s the choice of the person being killed, not anything about the method.
If someone was putting a mask on you that will definitely kill you, I imagine you’ll try and hold your breath, struggle, etc. I’m not going to put that on the prisoner. It’s human nature to try and not die.