# Why don't stray dogs form packs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097 "2004-12-10T10:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/1 "2004-12-10T10:17:33Z")
I’m in Moscow right now, where there are homeless dogs absolutely everywhere. Almost all of them are alone. On rare occasions you see two or three that seem to be hanging with each other on a long-term basis. Why don’t they get together and form a pack? Isn’t that the very foundation of the canine psyche? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/2 "2004-12-10T10:20:31Z")
They tend to in my experience. I’ve encountered quite big packs of strays in Asia. Very scary. Perhaps the environment, or human intervention, in Moscow prevent this? ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/3 "2004-12-10T12:22:53Z")
- - - When I was in San Antonio, Texas, the strays would travel around town in groups of about 5-15 dogs. ~ ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/4 "2004-12-10T13:01:20Z")
The stray dogs in our area don’t form packs, they form pyramids. Once in awhile you can see them by the hundreds in a large feild spelling out words, like “R-A-I-S-E- T-H-E-W-O-O-F” while playing butt kazoos. /Thank you thank you! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/5 "2004-12-10T13:25:39Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > /Thank you thank you! I’ll have what she’s drinking. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/6 "2004-12-10T14:48:23Z")
There are packs of wild dogs that run around San Bernardino, CA. They are quite scary and are on the freeways quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/7 "2004-12-10T15:09:47Z")
They do, and can be very dangerous because they lack the fear of humans that most wild predators have. Dog packs (generally formed of dogs dumped by [deleted] who decide to “set free” their dog rather than take it to the shelter) are frequently a problem in rural areas here. When I lived in the country as a teen, I can recall a couple of occasions when word went around not to allow small children outside alone because of threatening behavior or attacks by dog packs. Of course, most rural households here have guns, and it’s perfectly legal to shoot a dog that’s harassing people or livestock, so they eventually get taken care of. (It can take a while, though, they get pretty wily.) I’ve also seen dog packs in the city where I live now. I don’t know whether they were abandoned or just belonged to idiots who let them out all the time. Animal Control will remove them sooner (if someone gets bitten) or later. I don’t know why Moscow dogs would be any different - perhaps it’s backlash against the Communists? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/8 "2004-12-10T15:21:08Z")
In Soviet Russia, dogs pack _you_! ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/9 "2004-12-10T15:58:46Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > In Soviet Russia, dogs pack _you_! Soviet Dog Pron. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/10 "2004-12-10T16:15:53Z")
Chicago animal control must be better than animal control in other major cities as I have rarely seen packs of dogs roaming about. Occasional strays sure as well as “mini-packs” of perhaps 3-4 dogs but they are few and far between. Certainly I have read that packs of feral dogs in third-world cities but San Bernardino, CA? I don’t doubt the veracity of the posters here but surely a city in the US can manage the wherewithal to take care of an issue like this. If they are as scary and dangerous as suggested here one would suppose animal control or the police would solve the problem. Speaking of dangerous feral dogs are there any actual stories of people in the US getting attacked by these packs? I would think it would make headline news if someone was mauled or killed by wild dogs roaming a city. I think it’d make national news even which leads me to believe this is either extremely rare or so common as to not be worthy of news attention and I doubt it is all that common. I am not suggesting that feral dogs are “safe” by any means and they should be avoided but most feral dogs I have seen want about as much to do with you as you do with them…which is to say nothing. All feral dogs I have seen are scavengers (although I assume they may nab a rat or cat or small dog if opportunity presents itself). IIRC someone posted about the dogs they saw roaming about in Mongolia and those sounded not only huge but downright vicious and known to go after people to the point the poster said the local populace had substantial sticks/clubs/staffs to beat them off. Been awhile though so I may be misremembering. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/11 "2004-12-10T19:13:00Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > In Soviet Russia, dogs pack _you_! HA! 😃 I’ve seen packs in Third World countries, the absolute worst being in Kathmandu, where the municipality tries to counter them with poisoned meat. The few times a pack passed me on the street I found it menacing. A few times I saw dogs fighting in the street, which the locals seemed to find amusing. Add in the rats, chained up livestock at some temples pre-slaughter, wandering sarced cows, driven water buffalo, troops of handsome monkeys (Nepal has monkeys like we have squirrels), etc. IN the city, along with the motorbikes, rickshaws, tuk tuks and so forth, and it makes for quite a scene. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/12 "2004-12-10T21:33:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Speaking of dangerous feral dogs are there any actual stories of people in the US getting attacked by these packs? I would think it would make headline news if someone was mauled or killed by wild dogs roaming a city. Where I went to highschool, there was a pack of feral dogs killing and eating other dogs - You know, the kind that were still considered ‘pets.’ They’d take cats and other animals, too. They aparantly had the good sense not to screw with larger animals, like the horse across the street, or the cattle down the raod, though. Every so often, while running with _my_ dog, we’d come across remnants of one of their kills. One night, the pack came after my dog. Bad move… Ty was a _big_, smart dog, and backed into his (rather robust) dog house when they tried to get him. He gutted two of them and mauled a few more before my dad could get out back with a gun and put ‘paid’ to the rest of the pack. Seven dogs, in all. After that, people’s pets stopped vanishing mysteriously. Magic! So - yes, they form packs, and yes, under the right conditions they can be dangerous, though only rarely to humans. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/13 "2004-12-10T22:54:52Z")
I gots to know: What kind of dog was Ty and was he ok after this brave defense? YAY for your dad, too! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/14 "2004-12-11T00:15:10Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > Where I went to highschool, there was a pack of feral dogs killing and eating other dogs - You know, the kind that were still considered ‘pets.’ They’d take cats and other animals, too. They aparantly had the good sense not to screw with larger animals, like the horse across the street, or the cattle down the raod, though. Every so often, while running with _my_ dog, we’d come across remnants of one of their kills… > [SNIP] Where did you and Ty live, out of curiousity? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/15 "2004-12-11T12:39:43Z")
So consensus is that Moscow is the only known place where strays _don’t_ form packs? That makes me even more curious. Why wouldn’t they do that here? Any ideas at all? ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/16 "2004-12-11T12:49:15Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > HA! 😃 > > I’ve seen packs in Third World countries, the absolute worst being in Kathmandu, where the municipality tries to counter them with poisoned meat. Crandolph, I see you’re in Philadelphia. There is or was at least one pack of feral dogs roaming Fairmount Park in recent years. 11811 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/17 "2004-12-11T12:57:09Z")
How close is the behaviour of feral dog packs to the behaviour of their wild canine relatives? ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/18 "2004-12-11T16:02:00Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > So consensus is that Moscow is the only known place where strays _don’t_ form packs? That makes me even more curious. Why wouldn’t they do that here? Any ideas at all? Totally WAG: Maybe whatever they are subsisting on (garbage?) is not abundant enough to support more than a few animals in any one territory? I think dogs (and wolves to some extent) are generalists and can modify their behavior depending on where they are. Not all wolves everywhere in the world live in packs, they can live in smaller groups if their environment requires it. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/19 "2004-12-11T16:13:46Z")
I’ve just asked my dog if she’s a generalist and she scoffed. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097/20 "2004-12-11T17:01:23Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > So consensus is that Moscow is the only known place where strays _don’t_ form packs? That makes me even more curious. Why wouldn’t they do that here? Any ideas at all? After decades under Communism, perhaps they were tired of working for the collective? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-stray-dogs-form-packs/279097.md?page=2)