# Why don't strip clubs have to be equal opportunity employers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 30, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251 "2013-06-30T08:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/1 "2013-06-30T08:58:16Z")
Why don’t they have to hire men? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/2 "2013-06-30T09:10:55Z")
It’s a performance role. You don’t have to hire those that don’t fit the part. This doesn’t mean you can refuse to hire \_\_\_\_\_\_\_s for positions in the kitchen though. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/3 "2013-06-30T10:31:03Z")
I’ve been to Las Vegas. 😃 I visited Spearmint Rhino (only stunning females provided entertainment) and a gay bar (where only fit chaps provided entertainment.) What was your point again? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/4 "2013-06-30T13:49:26Z")
Ever been to Thailand? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/5 "2013-06-30T16:48:23Z")
They’re allowed to discriminate on the basis of bona fide occupational requirements. Being female is a necessary characteristic to performing the job, in most strip clubs. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/6 "2013-06-30T16:54:50Z")
Strippers get paid in tips, not wages. If they get an hourly wage at all, it’s half of minimum, like a waitress. So I would guess that if a guy wanted to, they might just let him do it until he quit. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/7 "2013-06-30T17:08:33Z")
How does this work for casino cocktail servers? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a male one. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/8 "2013-06-30T17:19:23Z")
It is not illegal to discriminate in employment, if the discrimination is based on what’s called a “Bona Fide occupational Qualification” or BFOQ for short. This exception is written into the anti-discrimnation laws, such as title VII (" sex . . . is a bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise") It’s very established that race and gender can both be BFOQs in the entertainment industry, For example, if you are hiring an actor to play Malcolm X, you do not have to audition white actors at all. You can advertise “black actors only” and it’s absolutely cool. Similarly, a strip club offers a display of womanflesh for hire, that’s their business, so they don’t have to change their business entirely in order to hire men. Note that a strip club cannot hire only women throughout its operation. They can hire only women strippers, if their entertainment service is a display of (semi-)naked women. But there’s no legal justification to discriminate against male bartenders in hiring. Being female is not a BFOQ for a bartender, and legally it doesn’t matter if their customers demonstrably prefer female bartenders. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/9 "2013-06-30T17:50:30Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Note that a strip club cannot hire only women throughout its operation. They can hire only women strippers, if their entertainment service is a display of (semi-)naked women. But there’s no legal justification to discriminate against male bartenders in hiring. Being female is not a BFOQ for a bartender, and legally it doesn’t matter if their customers demonstrably prefer female bartenders. That may or may not be true. Places like Hooters have successfully defended cases based on the idea that as long as some positions are gender-neutral they can be pretty expansive in what is and is not an entertainment position. So if a strip club had kitchen staff, management, and security (bouncers) all be gender neutral positions, they might be able to successfully maintain an all female serving and bar staff. But a court may look at it with a pretty jaundiced eye. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/10 "2013-06-30T17:59:47Z")
How does it work with Asian restaurants? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/11 "2013-06-30T18:09:18Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > How does it work with Asian restaurants? If you mean why are most of the waitstaff Asian, many Asian restaurants are “mom-and-pop” operations that don’t have enough employees to fall under equal opportunity provisions. Also, many positions may be filled by word of mouth so that non-Asians may never even hear of them. This said, I’d bet that much of the kitchen staff is probably Hispanic in many areas. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/12 "2013-06-30T18:13:02Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Strippers get paid in tips, not wages. > If they get an hourly wage at all, it’s half of minimum, like a waitress. > So I would guess that if a guy wanted to, they might just let him do it until he quit. When a tipped employee gets tipped so little that their pay falls below minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference. Not all employers do, of course, but it’s illegal not to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/13 "2013-06-30T18:17:53Z")
> [@Bartman](#): > > That may or may not be true. Places like Hooters have successfully defended cases based on the idea that as long as some positions are gender-neutral they can be pretty expansive in what is and is not an entertainment position. Incorrect. The Hooters case settled and never established a rule of law. They did not “succeed” in their defense by any measure, because the case never got there. The dispute there was whether or not they were more an “entertainment” facility proffering big-boobed girls, or more a restaurant. Customer preference is never a defense, customer preference is never a BFOQ\*. A BFOQ goes to the inherent nature of the business. \*To be fair, I am am aware of one case in which it was found that customer preference was a BFOQ. There, it was elderly people in nursing homes, required to receive intimate services such as assistance in using the bathroom and getting baths, and the elderly residents were, by and large, racist. there, customer racism did serve as a defense, but, as far as I recall it hung on the highly personal nature of the services. It has never been found that customer preference is a defense in a retail setting. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/14 "2013-06-30T18:39:37Z")
Not that I was even remotely interested in the position, but a recruiter from a Christian children’s school once spoke to a group of my classmates and told us that an absolute requirement for hire is that the applicant “has a relationship with God.” Didn’t mention any _specific_ God, so apparently any garden variety, run-of-the-mill deity would suffice, but there had to be some sort of demonstrable ‘relationship’ nonetheless. Does this run afoul of any public policy currently in existence? This was a publically-funded college that she was soliciting at, if that matters any. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/15 "2013-06-30T20:31:17Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Strippers get paid in tips, not wages. > If they get an hourly wage at all, it’s half of minimum, like a waitress. > So I would guess that if a guy wanted to, they might just let him do it until he quit. As I understand it, in most(all?) states strippers are “independent contractors” rather than employees, and as such aren’t paid an hourly wage at all, any more than your local sports arena would be required to pay the Rolling Stones $7.25 per hour next time they roll into town. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/16 "2013-06-30T21:10:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > As I understand it, in most(all?) states strippers are “independent contractors” rather than employees, and as such aren’t paid an hourly wage at all, any more than your local sports arena would be required to pay the Rolling Stones $7.25 per hour next time they roll into town. This what I’ve heard also. The strippers don’t work for the club. They’re legally designated as self-employed performers and the club is the venue. This apparently is changing. A group of strippers sued sixteen clubs (in six states) last year claiming that they weren’t following independent contractor law and therefore the strippers should have been classified as employees and entitled to benefits which they didn’t receive. The clubs settled out of court for thirteen million dollars, which would tend to indicate there was some merit to the suit. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/17 "2013-06-30T21:31:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > They’re allowed to discriminate on the basis of bona fide occupational requirements. Being female is a necessary characteristic to performing the job, in most strip clubs. No, _appearing_ female is. Cross-dressing strippers aren’t unheard of. (After all, cross-dressing prostitutes are common, and that’s an even tougher ‘role’.) > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > How does this work for casino cocktail servers? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a male one. Go to any gay bar – they’re quite common there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/18 "2013-06-30T23:09:22Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > No, _appearing_ female is. Cross-dressing strippers aren’t unheard of. I remember reading of a stripper who was arrested in Texas for dancing topless. She had a unique (and successful) defense: she was a post-op transsexual but Texas law did not recognize sex changes. So while she was now a woman in every obvious sense, legally she was still considered a man. And the law only prohibited women from being topless in public. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/19 "2013-06-30T23:21:10Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > Not that I was even remotely interested in the position, but a recruiter from a Christian children’s school once spoke to a group of my classmates and told us that an absolute requirement for hire is that the applicant “has a relationship with God.” Didn’t mention any _specific_ God, so apparently any garden variety, run-of-the-mill deity would suffice, but there had to be some sort of demonstrable ‘relationship’ nonetheless. Does this run afoul of any public policy currently in existence? This was a publically-funded college that she was soliciting at, if that matters any. Could the relationship be one of complete denial of existence? I’m guessing probably not. 😃 > [@Chronos](#): > > They’re allowed to discriminate on the basis of bona fide occupational requirements. Being female is a necessary characteristic to performing the job, in most strip clubs. They not only have to be female, but reasonably fit & attractive females at that. Have any fatties or uggos tried suing a strip club based on this? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251/20 "2013-07-01T00:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > No, appearing female is. Cross-dressing strippers aren’t unheard of. (After all, cross-dressing prostitutes are common, and that’s an even tougher ‘role’.) Well, that depends on what one means by “stripping”. Just because someone is cross-dressing doesn’t mean they’re cross-undressing, too. Personally, I wouldn’t consider it “stripping” if a biological male without medical body alteration could pull it off undetected (though he might still be able to do exotic dancing). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-strip-clubs-have-to-be-equal-opportunity-employers/662251.md?page=2)