# Why don't the Harry Potter books feel like fantasy novels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725 "2014-04-09T15:58:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/41 "2014-04-09T22:40:11Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > With one exception I have never seen any of those shows, in most cases because the previews were a turn-off, but also partly because I just don’t take on new TV shows too often. I’ve known enough people who are Buffy fanatics that one of these days (the same mythical day I tackle The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.) I will sit down and watch at least the first season. Oh, dear Og, don’t judge Buffy by it’s first season. If you’re going to try it, go ahead and commit to the first two seasons. The first one is like Joss Whedon learning to drive a manual transmission: a lot of hunting around to find gears, not much getting where he wanted to go. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/42 "2014-04-09T22:42:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > And I think there’s a big difference when you are being introduced into a world with the POV character and when the POV character is already immersed in the world. The former is more accessible and usually requires anything magical or supernatural to be handled in a completely different way. “High fantasy” usually has POV characters who are already immersed. Isn’t that true in LOTR (and _The Hobbit_ even more) as well? Shire hobbits, who are our POV characters, know very little of magic, or of the conflicts, wars and other dangers that afflict the rest of Middle Earth, and not much, even, of non-hobbit peoples, such as elves, orcs, dwarves, or even men. We readers learn about these things at the same time as as Bilbo, Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam lean about them. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/43 "2014-04-09T22:47:04Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > With one exception I have never seen any of those shows, in most cases because the previews were a turn-off, but also partly because I just don’t take on new TV shows too often. I’ve known enough people who are Buffy fanatics that one of these days (the same mythical day I tackle The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad, etc.) I will sit down and watch at least the first season. > > The exception was Pushing Daisies, which could be a too whimsical by half, but was able to incorporate magical elements without setting off my instinctive “ugh - fantasy” alarm. Interesting, of all the shows I named the only ones I liked where Pushing Daisies or Dead Like Me and Buffy was OK, Highlander could be watched if nothing else was on. I very strongly think you will like some of the better Urban Fantasy books. I forgot to ask about Northern Exposure, it made magic or supernatural nearly invisible in a quirky hour long dramedy, it you liked Northern Exposure, Charles DeLint’s early works will probably work for you. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/44 "2014-04-09T22:48:33Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > The weemonts go to Tess’la’rath on a mmmey, attended stourch taught by fargnarimpen, take hakkumae and do nogoemhafun when they misbehave. They have gobstuffin and play Quidditch. I think I’ve read that book. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/45 "2014-04-09T22:49:30Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Isn’t that true in LOTR (and _The Hobbit_ even more) as well? Shire hobbits, who are our POV characters, know very little of magic, or of the conflicts, wars and other dangers that afflict the rest of Middle Earth, and not much, even, of non-hobbit peoples, such as elves, orcs, dwarves, or even men. We readers learn about these things at the same time as as Bilbo, Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam lean about them. I love the Lord of the Rings, but the non-humans outnumber the human characters by far and I understand why Rodgers01 wouldn’t like it if he doesn’t like fantasy books. I mean it is effectively the basis of the entire genre of High Fantasy with a large influence of Sword & Sorcery and all D&D inspired fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/46 "2014-04-09T23:00:50Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I think I’ve read that book. 😃 Yeah. Tolkien’s work really went downhill when he let Gentry Lee start co-authoring. Truth in composition: I originally wrote “Geddy Lee,” looked at it and said, “That ain’t right,” and had to go look up Gentry Lee’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/47 "2014-04-09T23:07:53Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Oh, dear Og, don’t judge Buffy by it’s first season. If you’re going to try it, go ahead and commit to the first two seasons. The first one is like Joss Whedon learning to drive a manual transmission: a lot of hunting around to find gears, not much getting where he wanted to go. Errrgghh. Okay, two seasons it is. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Interesting, of all the shows I named the only ones I liked where Pushing Daisies or Dead Like Me and Buffy was OK, Highlander could be watched if nothing else was on. I very strongly think you will like some of the better Urban Fantasy books. > > I forgot to ask about Northern Exposure, it made magic or supernatural nearly invisible in a quirky hour long dramedy, it you liked Northern Exposure, Charles DeLint’s early works will probably work for you. I was young when I saw it, but I did love Northern Exposure! I had almost forgotten that there was sometimes a magic/supernatural element. But you got that right, and you also liked Pushing Daisies, so you seem to have tapped into my fantasy-tolerant vein. I’ll add Charles DeLint to my reading list - thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/48 "2014-04-09T23:16:41Z")
Low fantasy vs High fantasy. In low fantasy, a barbarian swordsman can chop an immortal necromancer in half with one shrug of his steely muscles. In high fantasy an immortal necromancer can wither a barbarian swordsman into ash with one twitch of his skeletal finger. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/49 "2014-04-09T23:32:15Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Yeah. Tolkien’s work really went downhill when he let Gentry Lee start co-authoring. > > Truth in composition: I originally wrote “Geddy Lee,” looked at it and said, “That ain’t right,” and had to go look up Gentry Lee’s name. Well, to be fair, Rush _did_ do some pretty Tolkien-esque stuff back in the '70s. 😃 (though that was Neil, not Geddy. Geddy just _sang_ it.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/50 "2014-04-09T23:41:22Z")
At their core they are really about solving mysteries. And give J.K. credit for writing suspenseful page turners. You can’t finish a chapter without wanting to read the next and when the book is done you need another. > [@delphica](#): > > Rowling, from the beginning of the series, has often talked about how she is a huge fan of boarding school stories, which is a very specific genre in the UK, and maybe more of a niche interest in the US. I’ve always loved how the “feel” of Harry Potter is very often much more similar to the boarding school tradition – it’s about redefining yourself in a new environment, making decisions on your own, making friends, making enemies – often over petty stuff, school sports, meeting your friends’ families over the holidays … even something which is sometimes criticized about the HP books, that Harry gets very little help (relatively) from the adults in his life, is very consistent with the boarding school book genre. > > Obviously, the plot of the books is dependent upon the reader buying into the idea of magic, but you actually don’t have to understand very much about how the magic works to enjoy the books fully. It’s probably more important to be invested in the interpersonal relationships shown in the book, which are very similar to the relationships we have in the real world. I think all good fantasy does this to some extent - functions as a stand-in for situations in our world - but HP is very, very anchored in the real world when it comes to how people and systems relate to each other. It’s not even a metaphor, it just IS. For example, a lot of fantasy settings are ruled by a king with absolute authority, which most of us don’t have any first-hand experience with. HP’s wizarding world is ruled over by an annoying bureaucracy. Well said. Life around them goes on pretty much as normal but a little trouble has come looking for them so they have to fend for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/51 "2014-04-09T23:49:24Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > At their core they are really about solving mysteries. > And give J.K. credit for writing suspenseful page turners. You can’t finish a chapter without wanting to read the next and when the book is done you need another. Yes. Credit where credit is due, absolutely. Another thing she excels at is working in the appropriate amount of backstory in a smooth and effortless manner. Each book after the first recaps what has gone before so quickly as to not bore the people who’ve read the previous books 50 times, yet without giving so little detail that newcomers are completely left in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725/52 "2014-04-11T14:48:46Z")
OneCentStamp: > [@](#): > > Book 7: We need to destroy the diadem of Rowena Ravenclaw, one of the Horcruxes! But we don’t have anything powerful enough to do that! It takes basilisk venom or something similarly potent. “Oh wait,” says freaking Crabbe, heretofore a nonverbal meathead for 6.5 books, “I’ll cast Fiendfyre, a spell never mentioned once in the books before now, a spell Dumbledore himself didn’t think to use when he tried to destroy a Horcrux. But I know it!” They were prepared with a handful of basilisk fangs to destroy it. Crabbe might have inadvertently taken care of the problem before they got to do it themselves, but they didn’t NEED him and his heretofore-never-revealed spell in order to fulfill their mission. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-harry-potter-books-feel-like-fantasy-novels/685725.md?page=2)