# Why don't the Jews build another Temple? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 20, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444 "2016-07-20T19:37:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/61 "2016-07-21T23:23:05Z")
jayjay: > [@](#): > > So if the Temple IS restored, they’d be the go-to population to become priests Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/62 "2016-07-22T01:56:17Z")
Correct me if I am misinformed, but an orthodox Israeli explained to once that a new Temple can be consecrated by an ordained priest (not a rabbi) and a priest can be ordained only in a Temple. Not sure how this played out in consecrating the second Temple. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/63 "2016-07-22T02:22:36Z")
Anybody named Levy, Levine, etc. etc. is a Levite, and eligible for that service if and when the Temple is restored. Now all they can do is swagger down the aisle after the Cohens, to get second dibs on the Torah reading in synagogue. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/64 "2016-07-22T02:33:36Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Correct me if I am misinformed, but an orthodox Israeli explained to once that a new Temple can be consecrated by an ordained priest (not a rabbi) and a priest can be ordained only in a Temple. Not sure how this played out in consecrating the second Temple. I don’t know the procedure for consecrating the Temple, but there simply isn’t any procedure for ordaining a kohen/priest. As explained above, it is a hereditary position acquired at birth from one’s father. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/65 "2016-07-22T06:06:27Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Now all we need is the “T-remover”! You can find one [here](http://appsforcats.com/play-leather-goddesses-of-phobos-online-for-free-in-your-browser/). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/66 "2016-07-22T16:35:46Z")
Hari Seldon: > [@](#): > > Correct me if I am misinformed, but an orthodox Israeli explained to once that a new Temple can be consecrated by an ordained priest (not a rabbi) and a priest can be ordained only in a Temple. Not sure how this played out in consecrating the second Temple. First of all, as others have pointed out, the priesthood was hereditary - once Aaron and his sons (and later, his grandson, Phineas) were ordained, no further act of ordination was necessary to a descendant of Aaron to be a priest. He might have been referring to appointing a priest to the position of High Priest, but I don’t believe that the Temple consecration (which would involve annointing the altar and certain vessels with special oil) requires the High Priest, so there’s no catch-22 there. In any case, even for the High Priest, I think an ordination ceremony was only necessary when the position is not occupied by the prior one’s own son, or if there is any particular dispute over who should succeed to the position. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/67 "2016-07-22T16:47:18Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > …Are there any Levites left? … > > > [@cmkeller](#): > > > > …There are plenty of Levites around… > > > > > [@jayjay](#): > > > > > > What is the relationship between the priestly Levites and the modern kohans? > > > > > > > [@cmkeller](#): > > > > > > > > … > > > > “Kohan” (or kohen, or cohen, or any number of variant transliterations of the word) is the Hebrew word that is generally translated as “priests.” They are a subset of the Levite tribe (descendants of Levi, son of Jacob), specifically, descended from Aaron (Moses’s brother, a great-grandson of Levi). Modern Kohanim (that’s the proper plural) are direct male-line descendants of those who lived in Temple times. > > > > > > > > > [@jayjay](#): > > > > > > > > > > So if the Temple IS restored, they’d be the go-to population to become priests (or are they already considered priests, just…in reserve?)? > > > > > > > > > > > [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody named Levy, Levine, etc. etc. is a Levite, and eligible for that service if and when the Temple is restored. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now all they can do is swagger down the aisle after the Cohens, to get second dibs on the Torah reading in synagogue. To expand on this, because it is unfamiliar to many people, Immagonna lift out a copy of a long post from another thread, an SD magnum opus of mine on the topic: Thankfully the Talmud is not Sharia in the State of Israel, but among the religious Jewish body-politic, classes certainly exist de jure. The word “second” or “third” can be too heavily loaded, of course. More like “differently-abled” and distinct. The Jews, to this day, comprise three classes: I: The Kohens (literally, “priests” in Hebrew). These guys are all nominally descendants of the first High Priest of the Temple, Aaron. In practice, anybody named Cohen, Cohn, Cahn, Kahn, Kahan, Caan–yeah, Sonny!–even that prick Roy Cohn, is a member of the priestly class, and had a right to become the high priest. So what does that get them nowadays? The main ones I can remember is that they get to be the first to read or bless the Torah when it is read. This takes place in every Orthodox synagogue. The sha(h)mus–in Yiddish, the sexton or beadle (?), the guy who keeps things running-- will either know who they are, or go down the aisles asking if anyone’s a cohen. The standard reply is “no, but I’m working on it.” (BTW, “shamus,” with a long a, as in 1940s detective stories/movies, comes from that word). Once a year, on Yom Kippur (for Ashkenazim), Cohens recite to the rest of the congregation the Priestly Blessing (“May the Lord Bless You and Keep You…”)–it’s a big deal in the service. Also Cohens can’t enter a cemetery, I think, or touch a corpse. (There’s a fascinating DNA testing of the validity the thousand-year length of time Cohens et al have preserved consistent genetic traits, particularly fascinating because being considered a Cohen was always just a matter of who your father is or claimed to be, a notoriously unregulated heritage tracking system). II: The Levites. The singers, instrumentalists, shit shovelers, butchers, functionaries, and what have you of the Temple. So doff your hat to all your friends named Levy, Levine, Levin, etc, etc. They go up to read the Torah second, or first if nary a Cohen can be found. I can’t think of what else they have to do or not do. III : The Israelites. All the rest of us poor slobs. Now an extra added attraction. I love briefly telling these facts to Jews who have never heard of it (basically all non-Orthodox) and non Jews. We all know Spock’s Vulcan hand-sign, right? That is the received–I don’t know its history, or if Sephardic Jews use it–hand position the cohens use when they raise their arms and say the priestly blessing. None other. Pass by a Jewish cemetery, and you’d wonder why so many people over the centuries with Cohen-y names were Trekkies, based on the engraving artwork. Leonard Nimoy is Jewish and thought it would be cool for Spock. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/68 "2016-07-22T16:54:30Z")
ETA: A correction to above: The “right” to become a functionary in the Temple, given proper caste, is incorrect; the right to be considered is correct. As you can imagine, there are many other considerations for the job. A Cohen must have both testicles, I think…that sort of thing. For more info, apply to HR, or most any Talmud-trained representative. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/69 "2016-07-22T18:23:13Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > . > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > . > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . Did you find a way to turn nested quoting back on, or did you do this all by hand? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/70 "2016-07-22T18:45:50Z")
So, if they ever re-build the Temple, what is the procedure for selecting a High Priest? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/71 "2016-07-22T18:46:47Z")
No, by hand–if that’s what killing the [/quote] from each cite but the last, and adding it a list of [/quote] 's at the end, and checking by preview la million times to see I forgot one and they didn’t pair up. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/72 "2016-07-22T18:48:41Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > So, if they ever re-build the Temple, what is the procedure for selecting a High Priest? As I say, go ask a Talmud student or Rabbi, and be prepared to discuss. For a _long_ time. With cites. Lots and lots of cites. (Not meant as snarky as it sounds. It is like asking, I don’t know, “what are states’ rights in a federal system” in a political science debate where _everybody_ considers himself–actually, is spiritually and intellectually _responsible_–to represent/“be” a Founding Father. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/73 "2016-07-22T19:03:06Z")
mbh: > [@](#): > > So, if they ever re-build the Temple, what is the procedure for selecting a High Priest? My guess is that, since that event is supposed to happen in concert with the revelation of the Messiah, he will be appointed by the King Messiah, or possibly by the prophet Elijah, whose return to ordinary life is supposed to herald the Messianic era. If G-d decides to bring about the construction of a new Temple before revealing the Messiah, I’m not sure what the answer is. Probably the Rabbis of the era will convene a formal Torah high court (Sanhedrin, in the parlance of the Talmud) and said court would decide who it should be. But IANAR, and this is purely a WAG - especially since I expect it to happen only in the Messianic context anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/74 "2016-07-22T19:52:24Z")
Jeez… after reading this thread, the OT sounds more like a business course, complete with accounting ledger and employee’s handbook. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/75 "2016-07-22T19:52:29Z")
And, in fine SD tradition, a highly technical thread (in parts) on Jewish Rabbinical thought sidles into Friday night… Shabbat Shalom, dudes, see you Saturday night! ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/76 "2016-07-22T19:59:56Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Jeez… after reading this thread, the OT sounds more like a business course, complete with accounting ledger and employee’s handbook. No, it sounds like how a great nation, in living functioning at one time, and in an extraordinary case of 2000 year exile and change, organizes and administers some of the most critical structures which define and govern itself. Bomb the White House, Congress, and Supreme Court (God forbid), and scatter all the population of the US. Assuming you can keep an underground movement of patriots to stick together under extreme pressure, shall we say, if you think discussing with love and urgency what made America America, and the idea of America is business correspondence, go ahead. I doubt your descendants would consider themselves American any more. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/77 "2016-07-22T20:11:00Z")
Wouldn’t it technically be the fourth temple? There was the temple built by David, the temple built after the captivity in Babylon, and the third built by herod? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/78 "2016-07-22T20:23:28Z")
Herod’s was a renovation, not a new building. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/79 "2016-07-22T20:30:39Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Which also calls into question the issue of rebuilding the Temple a third time without the Ark. It was apparently built the 2nd time without it and people were okay with that. > > (Counting Herod’s Temple as a reconstruction job rather than a new Temple.) > > The items from the 2nd Temple were carried away after the Siege of Jerusalem and are shown on the [Arch of Titus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_of_Titus#Significance)… There’s a item there that looks rather Ark-like. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444/80 "2016-07-22T20:43:42Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Shabbat Shalom, dudes, see you Saturday night! Gut Shabbos! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-jews-build-another-temple/760444.md?page=5)