# Why don't the Portland police arrest the camouflaged feds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331 "2020-07-25T18:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/61 "2020-07-26T19:33:37Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > Noam Chomsky, while a famous linguist, does not decide what is and isn’t a ultra-right buzzword. Clearly, Noam Chomsky should not be marginalized as only a linguist. Being an historian and philosopher qualifies him to write, publish, speak on just such things as governance and political systems. So, cheap shot against a respected scholar of far more than linguistics. ## Description Avram Noam Chomsky is an American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, historian, social critic, and political activist. Sometimes called “the father of modern linguistics”, Chomsky is also a major figure in analytic philosophy and one of the founders of the field of cognitive science. [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/62 "2020-07-26T19:33:41Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > This was supposed to be about why the Portland police are not arresting the camouflaged federal agents who are apprehending people without cause and without identifying themselves or the reason. That’s because the federal agents are jackbooted thugs with the powers of the supremacy clause. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/63 "2020-07-26T19:41:47Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > Clearly, Noam Chomsky should not be marginalized as only a linguist. Being an historian and philosopher qualifies him to write, publish, speak on just such things as governance and political systems. So, cheap shot against a respected scholar of far more than linguistics. > > ## Description > > Avram Noam Chomsky is an American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, historian, social critic, and political activist. Sometimes called “the father of modern linguistics”, Chomsky is also a major figure in analytic philosophy and one of the founders of the field of cognitive science. [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky) And he is a noted liberal. So forgive me if I don’t simply accept his opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/64 "2020-07-26T19:43:23Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > And he is a noted liberal. So forgive me if I don’t simply accept his opinion. If you can’t stay on topic, perhaps you could take a course in logic. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/65 "2020-07-26T19:46:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The ACLU disagrees Again a noted liberal organization. They win some/lose some. I don’t find their opinion definitive on the subject ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/66 "2020-07-26T19:47:43Z")
> [@ratatoskK](#): > > > [@kswiss](#): > > > > And he is a noted liberal. So forgive me if I don’t simply accept his opinion. > > If you can’t stay on topic, perhaps you could take a course in logic. I didn’t bring up Noam Chomsky. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/67 "2020-07-26T19:51:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > with the powers of the supremacy clause. hence why it is legal. Without rehashing the jackbooted thing this was my original point. if y’all wanna call them jackbooted thugs go nuts. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/68 "2020-07-26T19:52:29Z")
Yes, but you did insist on a sidetrack that only alt-righties may use the term “jackbooted thugs”, and in showing you how very wrong you were, a well established and respected authority was cited. Which you dismissed out of hand because you don’t agree with his politics. There was no logic behind it, just “Nope, he’s a liberal, I’m sticking my fingers in my ears.” Same as you dismiss the arguments of the ACLU because you don’t agree with what they advocate. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/69 "2020-07-26T19:53:05Z")
No, that is why the local powers are overridden and cannot intervene. It is still doubtful that their actions are legal. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/70 "2020-07-26T19:57:22Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes, but you did insist on a sidetrack that only alt-righties may use the term “jackbooted thugs”, and in showing you how very wrong you were, a well established and respected authority was cited. > > Which you dismissed out of hand because you don’t agree with his politics. There was no logic behind it, just “Nope, he’s a liberal, I’m sticking my fingers in my ears.” > > Same as you dismiss the arguments of the ACLU because you don’t agree with what they advocate. I don’t dismiss their views because of the political views. I just don’t find their views definitive. They win some cases, they lose some cases. The opposite argument would be you accept their views because you agree with their political slant. As if Noam Chomsky and the ACLU are the sole arbiters what is right or wrong in the world. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/71 "2020-07-26T20:00:52Z")
It’s not a matter of definitive. It is a matter of you simply dismissing them without even considering the argument, but only by considering their political position. Did you say, “Well, Chomsky argues this…, but what actually is the case is this…”? No, you said he was a liberal, and that was the entirety of the case that you made. That is why you failed so hard at logic. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/72 "2020-07-26T20:03:03Z")
Where are all the families demanding to know where their loved ones are? Who are all these people being kidnapped? Not being processed through the normal legal process? Where there concentration camps filled of Portland Hipsters? Nobody seems to want answer that. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/73 "2020-07-26T20:09:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Did you say, “Well, Chomsky argues this…, but what actually is the case is this…”? No, you said he was a liberal, and that was the entirety of the case that you made. Because this thread is a about “Why don’t the Portland police arrest the camouflaged fed?” My original point that: > [@kswiss](#): > > Federalism. > > Federal agents can enforce federal laws and don’t have to obey the police commissioner. Even if you don’t agree with how Trump is utilizing Federal agents (and I don’t) it is legal. If the police Commissioner ordered Federal agents not to investigate his police department for corruption/civil rights violations do think its a good idea? > > If a Federal Agent was driving with a .08 BAC yes the local police could arrest them. Or any other state/local crime. has been obscured by some very questionable legal reasoning and frankly conspiracy theory level nonsense. I’m just the only one who stuck around to argue with y’all. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/74 "2020-07-26T20:09:49Z")
That’s because it is an extremely stupid and misleading question that has nothing to do with us wishing to prevent families from missing their loved ones or people being kidnapped and processed through normal legal processes. We don’t want concentration camps. What you seem to be saying is that you don’t think that we should do anything until these things come to pass. The point I am making is that if you wait till then, it is too late. You may be assure of your knowledge that the govt will always be warm and fuzzy and take good care of you. And the reason for that is because others remain vigilant on your behalf, allowing you to live a blissful life of naivety and ignorance, while advocating directly against those who fight for your right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/75 "2020-07-26T20:11:24Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What you seem to be saying is that you don’t think that we should do anything until these things come to pass. The point I am making is that if you wait till then, it is too late. Thats what I mean by conspiracy theory nonsense. There are no concentration camp. the legal process is being followed. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/76 "2020-07-26T20:12:07Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > Because this thread is a about “Why don’t the Portland police arrest the camouflaged fed?” Ah, a disingenuous reason to explain your earlier disingenuous reasons. And yes, it has well been explained and understood with no obscuring whatsoever that the local authorities do not have the authority to interfere with federal agents. That does not mean that whatever federal agents do is legal, as you claim. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/77 "2020-07-26T20:14:24Z")
@kswiss, They are being processed though the normal legal process and being released. Cite: > **[18 people face federal charges after arrests at courthouse protests in...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/24/us/portland-protests-18-arrested/index.html)** > > A total of eighteen people face federal charges for their alleged roles during protests this week at the US Courthouse in Portland, according to the office of the US Attorney for the District of Oregon. Another cite: > **[A district judge issues a temporary restraining order on federal agents....](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/portland-protesters-being-detained-chased-federal-agents-situation-intensifies-n1234616)** > > “I’m going to get taken away by these people," one Portland resident said. "Am I going to die?” And a federal judge isn’t taking action: > **[Judge refuses to issue order reining in federal agents in Portland](https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/24/judge-federal-agents-portland-reject-381381)** > > Court rejects bid by Oregon AG to require feds to identify themselves before whisking suspects from city streets. While everybody should be condemning the action, no legal response is going to stop it unless the judge or another one comes up with a different ruling. Can we stick to the facts? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/78 "2020-07-26T20:16:52Z")
Once again, it is _your opinion_ that the legal process is being followed. Many legal scholars disagree with your assertion. And to point out that there are no concentration camps, when I have already agreed that there are none(unless we are talking about family separation of asylum seekers, which is a different topic), but that I am advocating against the creation of such, is to admit that you have no interest in a productive discussion. I say for one last time. If you wait until there are concentration camps before you question your unwavering faith in the government, then it will be too late. That’s not a conspiracy theory, and calling it a conspiracy theory does not make it one, it just makes you wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/79 "2020-07-26T20:29:17Z")
I liked the Politico article the best: “The State could try to show, for example, that all of Defendants’ seizures are illegal, or that they are under orders to fail to identify themselves or to make random arrests without probable cause,” Mosman wrote. “The state has shown none of this. It has presented no evidence of any official orders or policies and has presented no evidence that these allegedly illegal seizures are a widespread practice.” Mosman also faulted the state’s lawyers for hyperbolic arguments, including describing those arrested as being “disappeared,” which the judge said evoked the mass murder of tens of thousands of political opponents by a military junta in Argentina in the 1970s and 1980s." Not my opinion, Federal Judge in a democracy decision. Y’all might find some solace in the articles too. It is an ongoing legal dispute. While individual cases might get thrown out on the specifics of the case, I seriously doubt any Judge is gonna say the operation as a whole is illegal. Again, not that I support the policy. Just saying its legal. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/80 "2020-07-26T20:35:31Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > And he is a noted I agree, he certainly is _noted_ and accomplished and a man of man of letters, but compared to you, what could he know about humankind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331.md?page=5)