# Why don't the Portland police arrest the camouflaged feds? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 25, 2020, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331 "2020-07-25T18:32:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/81 "2020-07-26T20:38:13Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > And he is a noted liberal. So forgive me if I don’t simply accept his opinion. See above- I am new at this quoting. Please bear with me. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/82 "2020-07-26T20:47:19Z")
new here too, how y’all quote web pages and news stories? haven’t figured that out yet. I got a error message. But I digress. If I quoted a “noted conservative scholar” would y’all just fold your cards? oh golly he’s quoting a noted scholar, he must be right. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/83 "2020-07-26T20:57:38Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@kswiss](#): > > > > Because this thread is a about “Why don’t the Portland police arrest the camouflaged fed?” > > Ah, a disingenuous reason to explain your earlier disingenuous reasons. > > And yes, it has well been explained and understood with no obscuring whatsoever that the local authorities do not have the authority to interfere with federal agents. > > That does not mean that whatever federal agents do is legal, as you claim. I don’t think Im the one who keeps straying from the OP. Noam Chomsky, really? I gotta debate Noam Chomsky now? 1853 use of Jack booted thugs. Is the ACLU a reliable source of independent political opinion? Concentration camps are coming, unless we fight back. Concentration camps are not coming whether or not you fight back. I admire govt skepticism and don’t trust gov’t to do the right thing always. But Federal law enforcement has their authority under the constitution, and Trump is taking, in my opinion an expansive interpretation, but its legal. I don’t agree with Roger Stones sentence being commuted but its legal. (Not that I want to debate the Roger Stone Communtation in this this thread) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/84 "2020-07-26T21:30:21Z")
You made a claim. You didn’t back it up. Others cited that your claim was wrong, and rather than come up with your own cites, or give an argument as to what was wrong with the cite, you just dismissed it out of hand based on your political bias. You have brought absolutely nothing to your side of the argument. You are asserting that because you have heard right wing people use this term which refers to agents of a totalitarian govt, that they are the only ones allowed to use it. You even said effectively, “He’s quite the linguist, but what does he know about language?” If you cited a person within their area of expertise, I would not dismiss them simply because I disagreed with their politics, even if they were conservative. Now, if you had said something like, “My alt-right friends use that term so much, that it’s lost its meaning, and sounds to me like just hyperbole.” then that would be an acceptable and possibly valid argument. Anyway, that’s my last part on this exchange, because frankly, it’s pretty stupid. It’s like arguing about whether water is wet with someone who doesn’t trust the meteorologist. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/85 "2020-07-26T21:33:31Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > Concentration camps are not coming whether or not you fight back. I admire govt skepticism and don’t trust gov’t to do the right thing always. Those two sentences contradict each other. If you want to say “If concentration camps are coming, they will whether you fight back or not”, then I would probably agree. I am not so powerful that I could prevent it. But your assertion that “it can never happen here” is baseless, especially when you admit that you don’t trust the govt to always do the right thing. > [@kswiss](#): > > But Federal law enforcement has their authority under the constitution, and Trump is taking, in my opinion an expansive interpretation, but its legal. And my opinion, and the opinion of the ACLU, is that his expansive interpretation of unitary executive theory is not actually legal. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/86 "2020-07-26T21:42:33Z")
The fact that the ACLU shares your opinion does not impress me. I don’t know why you think it should. The US Department of Justice shares my opinion, you don’t seemed swayed by that. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/87 "2020-07-26T21:58:07Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > Is the ACLU a reliable source of independent political opinion? The ACLU is a reliable source of constitutional _legal_ opinion. It is right there in American+Civil Liberties. Don’t let the Union thing throw you. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/88 "2020-07-26T22:01:42Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > The ACLU is a reliable source of constitutional _legal_ opinion. How do you italicize? I wanna italicize opinion instead of legal in that. It will prove a point. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/89 "2020-07-27T01:00:53Z")
I think the problem here is that you for some reason think I am trying to impress you. I truly hope that that is not _your_ goal. But yeah, the ACLU has lawyers that can put the case more specifically and succinctly than I. I can make various arguments to the effect, but if you want a legalese breakdown of the specifics, you are welcome to read the cite that I provided. The DOJ has been wrong before, many, many times, under pretty much all administrations. I doubt that there has been an administration since Mr. Tippecanoe and pneumonia too that made it through their term without being successfully sued at some point due to unconstitutional executive orders. Nothing legal is _ever_ certain, there is no such thing as a slam dunk. However, there are very powerful and compelling arguments, of which have been laid out here, and can be read in specific at the provided cites, to say that the DOJ and administration is wrong on this. Until a court rules, then that is all either of us have, an opinion as to which argument is more compelling. That _you_ do not find that argument impressive matters not an iota to me. I only care about what a judge thinks. Unless you actually are a federal judge with jurisdiction that would cover these lawsuits. Then well…, hey, want some cake? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/90 "2020-07-27T01:01:56Z")
single pair of ‘\*’ will _italicize_, double **bolds**. like \* italicize \* but without the spaces. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/91 "2020-07-27T01:30:06Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > How do you italicize? I wanna italicize opinion instead of legal in that. It will prove a point. On my iPad (IOS) I _word or words I want to italicize_-in the quote box it doesn’t italicize but when you post it does. Wait, I just realized the asterisks aren’t going to show once this is posted 😏 slaps face:-put an asterisk then the words or word then asterisk. Enjoy-This is the _only_ formatting I have figured out how to do. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/92 "2020-07-27T01:54:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > single pair of ‘\*’ will _italicize_ , double **bolds**. > > like \* italicize \* but without the spaces. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/93 "2020-07-27T01:56:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The DOJ has been wrong before, And so has the The ACLU. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/94 "2020-07-27T01:58:17Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Mr. Tippecanoe and pneumonia too Now I gotta debate the William Henry Harrison administration? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/95 "2020-07-27T02:00:50Z")
**thanks** from the bottom of my pea-picking little heart. See, I **knew** we could _all play nice_. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/96 "2020-07-27T02:05:08Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > “The State could try to show, for example, that all of Defendants’ seizures are illegal, or that they are under orders to fail to identify themselves or to make random arrests without probable cause,” Mosman wrote. “The state has shown none of this. It has presented no evidence of any official orders or policies and has presented no evidence that these allegedly illegal seizures are a widespread practice.” > > Mosman also faulted the state’s lawyers for hyperbolic arguments, including describing those arrested as being “disappeared,” which the judge said evoked the mass murder of tens of thousands of political opponents by a military junta in Argentina in the 1970s and 1980s." While this legal issue is far from over, the above federal judge seemed to take my side. I am a little smug that I used the “dispappeared” argument as well, before the federal judge. I have no legal training. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/97 "2020-07-27T02:08:10Z")
And I’d add, lot of hyperbolic arguments here. ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/98 "2020-07-27T02:38:06Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > See, I **knew** we could _all play nice_ . I enjoy intellectual debates. We might not agree but I appreciate the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/99 "2020-07-27T02:42:56Z")
> [@kswiss](#): > > We might not agree but I appreciate the conversation. Me too. Glad to make your acquaintance :doff of hat: You too **k9bfriender** ---
**Author:** ![kswiss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kswiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kswiss)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331/100 "2020-07-27T02:47:30Z")
We might not _agree_ but I appreciate the **convesration** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-portland-police-arrest-the-camouflaged-feds/916331.md?page=6)