# Why don't the western borders of Oklahoma and Texas line iup? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034 "2014-12-23T16:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/1 "2014-12-23T16:52:46Z")
Close examination of the western borders of Oklahoma and Texas reveals that there is a slight offset in what would appear in a more casual look to be a straight line. The western border of the Oklahoma panhandle is slightly to the east of that of Texas, perhaps just a mile or so. The book “How the States Got Their Shapes” doesn’t mention this particular issue. Oklahoma became a state long after Texas, and one would think they could have easily lined up the western side of Oklahoma with that of Texas. There is usually an interesting story behind the reasons for establishing borders (and there’s always a reason), so what’s the story behind this little oddity? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/2 "2014-12-23T16:59:17Z")
[Answer here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555352) ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/3 "2014-12-23T18:02:47Z")
Slavery. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/4 "2014-12-23T19:04:49Z")
Surveying was a very inexact science in those days, and two survey lines taken at different times from different starting points under different circumstances rarely, if ever, met exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/5 "2014-12-23T19:12:42Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > [Answer here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=555352) An interesting read. Thanks, **Saint Cad**. ---
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/6 "2014-12-23T23:27:07Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Surveying was a very inexact science in those days, and two survey lines taken at different times from different starting points under different circumstances rarely, if ever, met exactly. That’s plausible, but a two mile difference is a bit more than I would have expected, even then. There are surveying benchmarks all over the country; surely there would have been one at the northwest corner of Texas from which they could have started. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/7 "2014-12-24T04:24:05Z")
The authoritative source on state boundaries is _Boundaries of the United States and the several states,_ a US Geological Survey report [available as a PDF here](http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/b1212) or older versions on [archive.org](http://archive.org) or Google Books. Mark Stein’s book _How the States Got Their Shapes_ is a popular book telling the same tales. It’s more fun to read, but somehow completely misses any mention of the Washington Meridian. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/8 "2014-12-24T07:24:58Z")
And what’s with the extreme NW corner of Oklahoma’s panhandle? It starts out even with the New Mexico/Colorado border, then kind of bends down a little before leveling off. I’d think that would have been corrected at some point. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/9 "2014-12-24T16:54:43Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And what’s with the extreme NW corner of Oklahoma’s panhandle? It starts out even with the New Mexico/Colorado border, then kind of bends down a little before leveling off. I’d think that would have been corrected at some point. You can’t just correct things like that, without affecting things hundreds of miles down the line. It is settled law in the USA that once a point is civilly recognized as a border (by land owners, tax levy etc.), it is fixed and cannot be changed according to a new measurement using later technology. If you own a house that is deeded in one state and you find out later that it is within the defined limits of another state, you are still forever subject to the original state and deemed to be within it. Also, when rivers change course, whether naturally or by intent, the state line remains the same, which is why nearly all the TX-NM border north of El Paso is on dry land, regardless of where Rio Grande finds its way. And there are town in Illinois west of the Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/10 "2014-12-24T22:19:29Z")
Actually, we could resurvey a border and make it match with the legal description provided both states and Congress agree. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/11 "2014-12-24T23:22:25Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > It is settled law in the USA that once a point is civilly recognized as a border (by land owners, tax levy etc.), it is fixed and cannot be changed according to a new measurement using later technology. If you own a house that is deeded in one state and you find out later that it is within the defined limits of another state, you are still forever subject to the original state and deemed to be within it. WRONG! Are you ever right about anything? > **[Georgia v. South Carolina (1990)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_v._South_Carolina_%281990%29)** > > Georgia v. South Carolina, 497 U.S. 376 (1990), is one of a long series of U.S. Supreme Court cases determining the borders of the state of Georgia. In this case, the Court decided the exact border within the Savannah River and whether islands should be a part of Georgia or South Carolina. It also decided the seaward border. > In 1787, the two states agreed in the Treaty of Beaufort that the boundary along the Savannah River was the river's "most northern branch or stream," "reserving all islan... [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/opinion/sunday/how-the-carolinas-fixed-their-blurred-lines.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/opinion/sunday/how-the-carolinas-fixed-their-blurred-lines.html?_r=0) [http://masglp.olemiss.edu/Water%20Log/WL18/ellis.htm](http://masglp.olemiss.edu/Water%20Log/WL18/ellis.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/12 "2014-12-24T23:52:04Z")
**jtur88** Here’s another link for you to check out: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18002926#post18002926](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18002926#post18002926) ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2014, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-the-western-borders-of-oklahoma-and-texas-line-iup/708034/13 "2014-12-25T04:12:16Z")
Oklahoma blows and Texas sucks. The resultant wind patterns have gradually blown one state eastward and the other westward, not to mention having generated a substantial number of tornados over the years.