# Why Don't They Make Movie Musicals Anymore? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2002, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726 "2002-07-25T07:14:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/21 "2002-07-25T20:47:09Z")
I haven’t seen _Evita_ mentioned in this thread. A fine performance by Madonna, IMO, and fantastic cinematography. You could technically call _Moulin Rouge_ a musical, but as someone who writes musicals, I have a problem with a “musical” comprised of unoriginal material. (Unless it’s “Mamma Mia,” because that’s ABBA. :p) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/22 "2002-07-25T21:30:15Z")
Thanks, folks. I was focusing on film adaptations of Broadway productions, though, so a lot of those (_Moulin Rouge, South Park_) don’t count in the context. **scott** , I did forget _all_ about Madonna’s _Evita_! They’re gonna make me send my official fan-club henna-painted cone-bra back now… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2002, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/23 "2002-07-25T21:35:39Z")
I don’t know, but could it be that finally, enough people came to the realisation that musicals (apart from a few rare exceptions) suck donkey balls? 🙂 OK, that’s just my opinion, of course. But in general, I think the target market for movie musicals is not as big -relatively- as it was in the 60’s. Hence, there is less money to be made. And **South Park** of course rocked! ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/24 "2002-07-26T00:05:10Z")
The cinema revolutions of postwar Europe (Italian neorealism, French new wave, e.g.) put the big musical into a different aesthetic perspective for most filmgoers, and they could no longer connive at the genre’s unreality. The huge suspension of disbelief needed to make a big Hollywood musical work was a collaboration between filmmaker and audience, and the audience was looking for something different. More recently, there’s finally been enough artistic distance accumulated between then and now to allow for kind of PoMo resurgence of the musical: _Dancer in the Dark, Moulin Rouge, South Park,_ etc., are all the PUREST postmodernism. Each takes the whole history of the big musical into account, and each is, in its way, a reaction to that old standard. Things go in cycles; I predict a lot of such neo-musicals in the years to come. ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/25 "2002-07-26T00:30:56Z")
Another factor: it takes a deep talent pool to put together a movie musical. Script could be faked. After all, nobody goes to the opera for story. But a musical takes singing and songwriting, plus acting. South Park already had an established audience and no acting to worry about. The songs are also extremely short, and extremely witty. Hell, the whole movie was so good that I was stunned (I don’t get cable, so I knew about SP from the news stories and the few snippets I’d seen elsewhere.) Moulin Rouge did extremely well, but it’s opera disguised as a pop musical, which explains some of the extreme reactions expressed here. I must admit, hearing “Your Song” bleated over and over again was annoying, but I love the movie anyway. But in the end, Hollywood doesn’t have the talent pool to bring off musicals like they did. Who writes good singable songs? They tend to go into rock music. Who dances? Ballet. Is there someone willing to work hard to create something no one has seen before like a Fred Astaire or Gene Kelly? Finally, remember that there were a lot of musicals pumped out during the big years, and for every great one, there were a dozen that ranged from so-so to eye-gouging. Law of averages means these days, a good musical is going to be a rare and wonderful thing. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/26 "2002-07-26T09:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > **I don’t know, but could it be that finally, enough people came to the realisation that musicals (apart from a few rare exceptions) suck donkey balls? 🙂** That was my thought as well…though I did like the “PoMo” musical versions of “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”\* and “South Park”\*\*…but then, there’s so much _non_-musical dreck out there that mass audiences willingly put up with, so I’m not sure how much we should credit their tastes… \*[sub]They actually had what was, in the context of the show, a half-decent _reason_ why people were suddenly bursting out into song. Makes a big difference imho.[/sub] \*\*[sub]I can’t not like a musical with the song “Uncle Fucker” in it.[/sub] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KXL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/27 "2002-07-26T13:04:32Z")
Nobody’s mentioned DISNEY MOVIES, so I guess I will. Disney movies (like BEAUTY, MERMAID, etc. - not LILO & STICH, which is a great movie but not a musical) are the only remaining film musicals. I’ve never understood the whole “some people think people bursting into song is weird” explanation. Yes, it is odd, but people have been doing on stage and in movies for quite a while now. Seems to me that the only people who would avoid such things are people who have NEVER SEEN A MUSICAL OF ANY KIND. And that’s damn few people. Almost anyone who is going to go see a movie has seen a musical on TV, been to a high school production of WEST SIDE STORY, etc. ---
**Author:** ![KXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KXL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/28 "2002-07-26T13:08:31Z")
Oh, yeah, and **CalMeacham** , Question me an answer bright and clear. I will answer with a question clear and bright. Even though your answer may be wrong my question will be right. (I’m doin’ it from memory) ---
**Author:** ![Stimpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Stimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stimpy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/29 "2002-07-26T13:16:21Z")
Dancer in the Dark was a musical, although possibly not of the ‘uplifting’ or camp variety. However, My Best Friends Wedding is! But can I class this as a musical? (How much screen needs to be dedicated to singing and dancing?) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/30 "2002-07-26T13:28:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, yeah, and CalMeacham, > > Question me an answer bright and clear. > I will answer with a question clear and bright. > Even though your answer may be wrong my question will be right. > > (I’m doin’ it from memory) Good Lord. Do you remember it because you _like_ it? Or is it burned into your brain because you don’t? Me, I admit that I like a lot of Burt Bachrach/Hal David. They’re a talented pair, but I found the songs in LH unmemorable, not to mention weird. Oh, the Word is a rhombus Without a Circumference And nobody knows what this simile means, But Bachrach and David are making a Fortune… (from the MAD magazine parody. – I’m doin’ it from memory, too) ---
**Author:** ![KXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KXL)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/31 "2002-07-26T13:42:08Z")
I grew up watching the original version (1937 Frank Capra), which I love. Then one night, when I was about 12 years old (more than 20 years ago) I stumbled upon 1973 musical on TV. I watched it. It has stayed with me ever since. I wouldn’t say I _like_ it, but those Bachrach tunes are unforgettable. In a way that, say, the Peter O’Toole/Petula Clark version of “Goodbye, Mr. Chips” aren’t. Not a guilty pleasure, yet not something I hate. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/32 "2002-07-26T15:15:46Z")
Dancer in the Dark, Hedwig and the Angry Inch, Moulin Rouge!.. the musical is definitely making a comeback, and by and large the modern ones are _better_.[sub]Note that I didn’t mention South Park because the cartoon musical is a different matter entirely, it never went away.[/sub] No matter how _fun_ the classics were there is no denying they were simplistic and empty of any real story. For every Showboat there were a five Paint Your Wagons. But then what do I know, I sing along every time Beach Blanket Bingo comes on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/33 "2002-07-26T18:08:47Z")
I’ve always had the opinion that My Best Friends Wedding was a musical. The people break out in song a lot. Evita was kind of a finacial flop. There has been a Phantom project. There is a rabid Michal Crawford fan group that insists that he play the phantom. The have taken out full page ads in the trades to express themselves. I think with the success of Moulin Rouge you will see some more live action musicals in the future. Of course there is always Disney. Beauty and the Beast anyone? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/34 "2002-07-26T20:40:54Z")
**KXL** is right re Disney. I saw the **Country Bears** today. I do NOT recommend you attempt that yourself, unless you have a kid under 5 with you (“teen comedy” my arse, but really how could I have been surprised ). re the thread, it IS a musical, no doubt about it. It is replete with dance numbers and a cameo and song by Sir Elton. Bonnie Raitt, Don Henley, Colin Hay also cameo & provide singing voices. It must be kept in mind at all times that 6foot 6ish animatronic bears are performing these songs making these performances _a little_ less cool than they sound. 😉 Not meant as negative as it reads, really really great musical for the under 6 crowd, will be remembered fondly by all I’m sure. Just thought they could make it easier for an adult to sit thru w/o fidgeting ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/35 "2002-07-27T00:28:14Z")
I like Bollywood musicals myself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/36 "2002-07-27T01:32:21Z")
Don’t forget _Newsies_. My first look at Christian Bale-yummy! My sister played the part of Bonnie in her high school production of “Anything Goes.” She did a FANTASTIC job. And you should HEAR her sing-she’s really good. I mean, REALLY REALLY GOOD. Her rendition of “Heaven Hop” was better than the one we have on CD. Too bad she’s a total ego monster. I can’t tell her this because it will go to her head-which is big enough already. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/37 "2002-07-27T01:50:53Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem now is that most original songwriting gets direct visual interpretation through music videos, so there’s no longer a need to compile them for a film (and let’s face it, most of those musicals were threadbare in plot and were primarily song showcases). “Music videos” existed back then in almost the exact same way they exist now. They’re televised now rather than projected and the styles naturally changed with the times but fundamentally, the musical shorts of the B&W days serve the same purpose that videos do today; visually showcase songs to sell records. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/38 "2002-07-27T02:10:22Z")
The musical also relies on certain assumptions about the world. In \*Singin’ in the Rain, _, when they decide to make their movie a musical, Gene Kelly and Donald O’Connor Pitch the idea by adding a framing device. An actor in a musical gets hit in the head while reading \* A Tale of Two Cities_. That way, they say, the musical can include modern dances, like the Charleston, and the audience will still believe it. Apparently the idea that people would suddenly break into song needed no explanation. ---
**Author:** ![MrThompson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MrThompson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrThompson)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/39 "2002-07-27T02:11:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\* (and someone to kill Andrew Lord Webber - in a really slow, painful way)_\* Cool - I’ve found another ALW hater. Can you please explain what’s so objectable about his musicals? I’ve never understood this hatred thing at all; maybe it’s because he’s popular. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2002, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726/40 "2002-07-27T03:26:31Z")
If you want musicals, you can find videos-usually of stage productions, like _Titanic_, or _Phantom of the Opera_. …“It’s delightful, it’s delicious it’s de-lovely…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-they-make-movie-musicals-anymore/120726.md?page=3)