# why don't urban people in Netherlands move to higher ground? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 13, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587 "2011-08-13T17:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TonKa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9f8e36/32.png) [@TonKa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonKa)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/21 "2011-08-15T21:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Not so. In fact some of the highest land in the Kingdom of the Netherlands is along the French border. We don’t share a border with France, only with Belgium and Germany. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/22 "2011-08-15T21:51:51Z")
> [@TonKa](#): > > We don’t share a border with France, only with Belgium and Germany. Bzzzt! Wrong answer!😉 Polycarp got it right!😛 ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/23 "2011-08-17T07:15:05Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Take a look at the map [on this wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_control_in_the_Netherlands) to see the extent of what you’re proposing. Most of the major cities in the Netherlands are partly or totally below sea level. In fact, a major reason for why cities like Rotterdam and Amsterdam are so important is because they’re close to the sea, which was enabled international trade and the now mostly defunct Dutch “empire”. Rotterdam is still one of the main harbors in the world. I see, interesting. I didn’t know that the major urban centers were in the below-sea-level areas. How did that work out historically? Did the medieval Dutch build these cities in polders from the start? Or did the sea level rise / land sunk turning original coastal dry land into polders? ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/24 "2011-08-17T07:23:55Z")
the romans encountered fierce blue-eyed fighters living in the swampy regions whom they called ‘batavi.’ i suppose they’ve always been used to living in areas outside of fast land. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/25 "2011-08-17T16:42:34Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So why not build high-rise housing in higher areas? The Netherlands is densely populated-but mostly because the Dutch prefer single-family housing. If they built 500-unit high rises, they wouldn’t have to use the below-sealevel lands. > It would be interesting to add how much the Dutch have spent (over the centuries) of their very impressive flood control systems, and compare that with moving the population to higher ground. > If the global warming nuts are correct, the North Sea level will rise to the point that even all the dikes in the world won’t stop the Netherlands from flooding. Have you ever been there? “High ground” is a myth. As noted, 75% of the country is less than one meter above - or is below - sea level. If you are metric-impaired, a meter is only about three feet. Where exactly would you have them build? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/26 "2011-08-17T17:03:42Z")
IIRC from my “Holland for Tourists” museum placards… the earliest settlers began building drainage ditches to farm the marshy areas. As the water drained out of the peat soil, it began to sink - so they built walls (dikes around their fields and put wind-powered pumps to keep draing any seepage. Part of the problem was that the land sinks as it is drained, reinforcing the need for dikes. Plus, as more areas have more diking, of course it will take a while to flood any one area if a dike breaches. It seems to be more like “Oh, crap, load up the car” instead of “run for your life!” Plus from what I saw there is a significant dike between the (above sea level) edge of the country and the North Sea, with only a few holes like the channel to Amsterdam. A massive storm surge will not overwhelm the whole country unless it is epically proportioned. (Does the channel to Amsterdam have flood gates?) I assume they ahve the capacity too to handle extreme precipitation too. The big river is to the south, at Belgium. So basically, TonKa has it right from what little I know (seeing as how he has better knowledge). The risk is pretty low. ---
**Author:** ![TonKa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9f8e36/32.png) [@TonKa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonKa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/27 "2011-08-17T19:08:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Bzzzt! Wrong answer! Sure, we have a very thick border with France, we call it Belgium. ---
**Author:** ![TonKa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9f8e36/32.png) [@TonKa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonKa)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/28 "2011-08-17T19:28:45Z")
About the costs to keep our feet dry in this beautiful country, it’s a lot of money but we can afford it 😉 Despite the enormous costs to keep the water out, the Netherlands is still number 10 on the [List of the World’s Richest countries.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita) Yes I know, USA is Nr. 9, but we’ll beat you next year 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/29 "2011-08-17T20:38:29Z")
> [@TonKa](#): > > Sure, we have a very thick border with France, we call it Belgium. Nope. Just as England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are four ‘nations’ within the ‘country’ the United Kingdom, you Nederlanders have a similar oddity. The former United Provinces north of Belgium and west of Germany that everyone thinks of as “the Netherlands” are one _Land_ among four in what I think is called _Konikrijk Nederlands_ (correct me, please!), the other three being the former Netherlands Antilles: Aruba, Curacao, and Sint Maartin. And the latter, aq constituent part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, shares an island, with a land border in the local mountains, with a _departement_ of Republique Francais. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/30 "2011-08-17T21:10:13Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Nope. Just as England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are four ‘nations’ within the ‘country’ the United Kingdom, you Nederlanders have a similar oddity. The former United Provinces north of Belgium and west of Germany that everyone thinks of as “the Netherlands” are one _Land_ among four in what I think is called _Konikrijk Nederlands_ (correct me, please!), the other three being the former Netherlands Antilles: Aruba, Curacao, and Sint Maartin. And the latter, aq constituent part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, shares an island, with a land border in the local mountains, with a _departement_ of Republique Francais. And another oddity is that while Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten each have the status of “countries” within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Saba, Bonaire and Sint Eustatius now form part of the same country as European Netherlands, even though they are also in the Antilles. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/31 "2011-08-17T21:35:06Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Nope. Just as England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are four ‘nations’ within the ‘country’ the United Kingdom, you Nederlanders have a similar oddity. The former United Provinces north of Belgium and west of Germany that everyone thinks of as “the Netherlands” are one _Land_ among four in what I think is called _Konikrijk Nederlands_ (correct me, please!), the other three being the former Netherlands Antilles: Aruba, Curacao, and Sint Maartin. And the latter, aq constituent part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, shares an island, with a land border in the local mountains, with a _departement_ of Republique Francais. You’re going to either make him very happy or very sorry that he popped in here. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/32 "2011-08-17T22:09:30Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > And another oddity is that while Aruba, Curacao and Sint Maarten each have the status of “countries” within the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Saba, Bonaire and Sint Eustatius now form part of the same country as European Netherlands, even though they are also in the Antilles. When did Bonaire split off from Curacao? Why wasn’t I informed? 😕 I want to visit Saba one day. I sailed past it one night. ---
**Author:** ![TonKa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9f8e36/32.png) [@TonKa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonKa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/33 "2011-08-18T05:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Nope. Just as England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland are four ‘nations’ within the ‘country’ the United Kingdom, you Nederlanders have a similar oddity. The former United Provinces north of Belgium and west of Germany that everyone thinks of as “the Netherlands” are one Land among four in what I think is called Konikrijk Nederlands (correct me, please!), the other three being the former Netherlands Antilles: Aruba, Curacao, and Sint Maartin. And the latter, aq constituent part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, shares an island, with a land border in the local mountains, with a departement of Republique Francais. I see your point:\* **The Kingdom of the Netherlands** \* (in Dutch we say “Koningkrijk der Nederlanden”) shares a border with the\* **Republic of France** \*. But when I say bread, I don’t mean the crumbs. And we are slightly off topic… ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587/34 "2011-08-18T21:53:14Z")
> [@TonKa](#): > > I see your point:\* **The Kingdom of the Netherlands** \* (in Dutch we say “Koningkrijk der Nederlanden”) shares a border with the\* **Republic of France** \*. > > But when I say bread, I don’t mean the crumbs. Fair enough, and I like the witty turn of phrase, but you’ll find that part of the defining character and culture of this message board is an interest in the quirky facts of geography and history that some might dismiss as irrelevant. For me, the fact that Netherlands and France share a border, albeit on the other side of the Atlantic, is interesting and worth mentioning. So when Polycarp posted that high ground in the Netherlands was limited to certain provinces, I took the opportunity to nitpick his post by posting a cryptic reference to the high ground in the Antilles, which I guessed (correctly) that he would understand. Incidentally, I have stood on the highest point in the European Netherlands, at the drielandenpunt of Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-urban-people-in-netherlands-move-to-higher-ground/592587.md?page=1)