# Why don't US shopping carts have all 4 wheels swivel, like they do in Europe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 23, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886 "2012-12-23T01:42:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aaelghat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c5a1d2/32.png) [@aaelghat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaelghat)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/1 "2012-12-23T01:42:35Z")
I’ve noticed that many shopping carts in Europe and the Middle East have carts where all four wheels swivel. In the US the back two wheels are fixed - similar to an automobile. That makes them less maneuverable. Why the difference? I realize that US super markets are generally larger, so perhaps the back wheels being fixed makes more sense because it is better to have controllability. Is that it? Are there others reasons for the disparity between the US and Europe? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/2 "2012-12-23T01:47:37Z")
Pushing a cart through a few centimeters of snow is no fun. I imagine it would be even less enjoyable if all four wheels wanted to plow sideways. Experience: Canadian winters. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/3 "2012-12-23T01:49:07Z")
Australian trolleys are also back-fixed. I should have thought it provides more manoeuvrability, not less. Stops it drifting randomly. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/4 "2012-12-23T02:00:35Z")
So you can push them in a straight line, and so they don’t take a quick trip out into the street when you encounter a wheelchair cutout in the sidewalk. The local Ikea has all-pivoting wheels and it’s just barrels of fun watching people try to maneuver them across the parking lot with 800 pounds of furniture on them. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/5 "2012-12-23T02:01:09Z")
My supermarket has one area whose floor is at a slight grade. As it is, it’s not uncommon to see a shopper chasing his cart. It could be a lot worse with 4 swiveling wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/6 "2012-12-23T02:01:13Z")
The Ikea stores I’ve shopped at in the States have carts with all 4 wheels swiveling independently. I find them much harder to control (they behave a little better when pulled than pushed, though), and they seem designed to encourage people to make more visits to their orthopedist. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/7 "2012-12-23T02:12:52Z")
> [@Cugel](#): > > Australian trolleys are also back-fixed. I should have thought it provides more manoeuvrability, not less. Stops it drifting randomly. 😕 Not at any of the grocery stores I’ve been at - at least in regional Victoria, they’ve all been all wheel swivel types. ---
**Author:** ![bizerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@bizerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizerta)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/8 "2012-12-23T02:39:37Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > 😕 Not at any of the grocery stores I’ve been at - at least in regional Victoria, they’ve all been all wheel swivel types. They all swiveled when I was in Port Douglas, Alice Springs, Ayer’s Rock, and Sydney, last month. ---
**Author:** ![Sierra\_Indigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Sierra\_Indigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sierra_Indigo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/9 "2012-12-23T02:49:21Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > 😕 Not at any of the grocery stores I’ve been at - at least in regional Victoria, they’ve all been all wheel swivel types. > [@bizerta](#): > > They all swiveled when I was in Port Douglas, Alice Springs, Ayer’s Rock, and Sydney, last month. Adelaide - Coles, Woolworths and Foodland, all four-wheel swivel. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/10 "2012-12-23T03:06:26Z")
Having used them at IKEA, I see no real advantage to them. Having the back slip is as much of a pain as it is helpful; maybe you can do a bit more with the cart, but it’s also far less stable. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/11 "2012-12-23T03:22:01Z")
Okay, then we generally can say that the carts in Australia are four wheel swivel except in **Cugel’s** experience - now I’m curious as to where s/he saw the fixed rear wheel kind… (sorry for the hijack) ---
**Author:** ![barath\_s](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@barath\_s](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barath_s)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/12 "2012-12-23T09:44:17Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#): > > The Ikea stores I’ve shopped at in the States have carts with all 4 wheels swiveling independently. I find them much harder to control (they behave a little better when pulled than pushed, though), and they seem designed to encourage people to make more visits to their orthopedist. More than even the independent swivel, improper [caster](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle)makes it difficult to control. Caster helps make the wheels self-aligning. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/13 "2012-12-23T12:34:04Z")
I don’t know the exact reason, I guess it’s just historical. Here in Québec (Canada) it’s just as in the States, the back wheels are usually fixed except at Ikea. Personally, I like the 4-wheel-swivel. My mother-in-law has trouble walking for long periods, and she leans on her supermarket cart for stability. She couldn’t do that with a 4-wheel-swivel cart. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/14 "2012-12-23T12:43:57Z")
Carts with 4 swivel castor wheels tend to be the very small, light ones in my experience - and these work reasonably well. For anything that’s going to take any significant load, 4 castors is a recipe for chaos, especially if it’s going to be used on a less than perfectly flat/smooth floor, and especially once the cart is no longer brand new - without a pair of fixed wheels, it can be completely impossible to control a heavy load, once the swivel castors have decided where they want to go. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/15 "2012-12-23T12:57:50Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > My mother-in-law has trouble walking for long periods, and she leans on her supermarket cart for stability. She couldn’t do that with a 4-wheel-swivel cart. 4-wheel swivel carts usually come with a braking bar; I see people using them as “walkers” frequently. My grandmother’s equilibrium is shot to hell and she has no problem using the cart for stability. What you can’t do is let go of the brake completely and push all your weight onto the cart expecting it to stay in place. IKEA’s carts are pretty bad, but then, so are the floors in IKEA stores. The only supermarkets I’ve seen which had floors that “bad” were Lidls and, since in these case the “bad” is being raw concrete rather than something flatter and showier, they’re actually very good for the carts. ---
**Author:** ![steviep24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@steviep24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steviep24)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/16 "2012-12-23T14:42:23Z")
The only store I’ve used a 4 wheel swivel cart is Aldi. They aren’t that bad to use but I prefer conventional 2 wheel swivel carts. The 4 wheel swivel can go sideways making them a little harder to control when heavily loaded. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/17 "2012-12-23T15:40:03Z")
I was going to say that cost might be a factor; the swivel wheels on shopping carts go bad much more often than the fixed wheels. But it looks like control is a bigger concern. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/18 "2012-12-23T19:51:27Z")
I’d guess that the 4 wheel swivel would be more maneuverable in tighter lanes than the 2 wheel, at the cost of control, especially in larger carts. I think carts in the US tend to be bigger than those in Australia, though I’ve paid no particular attention. Also, it wouldn’t surprise me if shopping habits were different in the States from Europe and Aus. In the latter, and I gather in the former, it is more common to pick up (at most) a few days’ worth of food, rather than a weeks’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/19 "2012-12-23T22:56:48Z")
I think the wheels fixed in back are a lot easier on your lower back. ---
**Author:** ![brad\_d](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@brad\_d](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brad_d)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886/20 "2012-12-24T21:51:41Z")
With fixed rear wheels you can turn the thing just by applying a bit of torque. Try that with four swiveling wheels and the thing just rotates while happily continuing to move (crabbing, now) along its original path. You really have to muscle four-wheel-swivelers around turns. I’m in southern California, and the only four-wheel-swivel carts I can remember encountering around here are at IKEA. I can’t stand them, for the reason I outline above. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-us-shopping-carts-have-all-4-wheels-swivel-like-they-do-in-europe/644886.md?page=2)