# Why don't we/can't we do more desalinization? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 12, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259 "2008-01-12T05:35:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/1 "2008-01-12T05:35:48Z")
Suggested by this thread: [Fresh water on large navy ships. - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190968) The Navy can distill lots of potable water from salt water already. Why can’t this be done on a much bigger scale for thirsty countries anywhere near oceans? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/2 "2008-01-12T05:39:04Z")
Not cost-effective, most likely. That tends to be the usual answer for this type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/3 "2008-01-12T06:12:17Z")
Yep. Desalinization is expensive. Some Arab states have large-scale desalinization plants- Oman, for example, gets most of its potable water that way- but it helps to have massive oil revenues to pay for it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/4 "2008-01-12T06:43:02Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Not cost-effective, most likely. That tends to be the usual answer for this type of thing. [/QUOTE] It’s more expensive than laying mile after mile of pipe to get your fresh water from somewhere else? Or to have little or no potable water at all? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/5 "2008-01-12T06:48:08Z")
It’s also rough on the environment. Much better is 4th stage waste water purification. It can be done cheaper than desalinizations, and it is hwaaaay better for the environment. The problem is, dudes don’t like the thought of drinking waste waster, no matter how pure. Of course, every glass of water we dring today is part recycled waste water, just that it has gone through Natures recying system. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/6 "2008-01-12T07:54:47Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] It’s more expensive than laying mile after mile of pipe to get your fresh water from somewhere else? Or to have little or no potable water at all? [/QUOTE] But you don’t need to lay miles of pipe – there are these things called rivers that carry fresh water just fine. Much of California gets its’ water from the Colorado River, for example. The occasional dam, canal, intake filters, etc. are much less expensive than miles of pipe. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/7 "2008-01-12T09:15:54Z")
It’s used in Australia. > **[Perth Seawater Desalination Plant - Water Technology](https://www.water-technology.net/projects/perth/)** ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/8 "2008-01-12T12:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] It’s more expensive than laying mile after mile of pipe to get your fresh water from somewhere else? Or to have little or no potable water at all? [/QUOTE] To have little or no potable water at all is free. Building a pipeline might be more expensive than building a desalinization plant, but production costs have got to be much lower (just my WAG). ETA: If the pipeline has to go over several mountains or half a continent, the cost will of course at some point increase beyond a desalinization plant. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/9 "2008-01-12T13:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Suggested by this thread: [Fresh water on large navy ships. - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=190968) The Navy can distill lots of potable water from salt water already. Why can’t this be done on a much bigger scale for thirsty countries anywhere near oceans? [/QUOTE] We have not yet reached the point where it is costly enough to obtain water through other methods. Even if we have to either lay pipes or build a dam, that’s still “cheaper” because it involves a one-time expenditure that gets costed out over a long period of time, after which the cost of the water itself is negligible. Mind you, the West Coast is rapidly approaching the point where we will have to start doing some desalination. Las Vegas and Phoenix are the keys, as they are growing past the availability of water through any reasonably conceivable traditional delivery system. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/10 "2008-01-12T13:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] But you don’t need to lay miles of pipe – there are these things called rivers that carry fresh water just fine. Much of California gets its’ water from the Colorado River, for example. The occasional dam, canal, intake filters, etc. are much less expensive than miles of pipe. [/QUOTE] Most of California does NOT get its water from the Colorado River; indeed a very small portion of the water used by the state comes from that source. Most of the water used by California comes from the storage system called the Sierra Nevada snowpack. 😉 (which, of course, is then “delivered” to much of the state via the San Joaquin and Sacramento Rivers) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/11 "2008-01-12T13:43:22Z")
This has a comparison of desalination and other water sources for california: [http://www.coastal.ca.gov/desalrpt/dchap1.html](http://www.coastal.ca.gov/desalrpt/dchap1.html) \*And see, e.g., \* > [@](#): > > A recycling scheme that produced 100 million litres of water a day would cost $285 million to build or $1.15 for every 1000 litres of water, according to a Sydney Water report dated August 17, 2005. > > A desalination plant capable of producing the same amount of water would cost $470 million or $1.80 per 1000 litres. > > The report, which was forcibly released yesterday by the upper house, had been buried among thousands of documents on desalination. It says the recycling scheme is far less energy intensive, consuming 1.5 megawatts of power for every million litres of water, compared with 5.3 megawatts per million litres for a desalination plant. > **[It's a waste: seawater not the solution](https://www.smh.com.au/national/its-a-waste-seawater-not-the-solution-20051125-gdmijn.html)** and [Desalination](http://www.edwardsaquifer.net/desalination.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/12 "2008-01-12T14:32:53Z")
And this is a good discussion of the kinds of costs involved: [http://www.awa.asn.au/Content/NavigationMenu2/AboutWaterandtheWaterIndustry/WaterFacts/FactSheets/Desalination/default.htm](http://www.awa.asn.au/Content/NavigationMenu2/AboutWaterandtheWaterIndustry/WaterFacts/FactSheets/Desalination/default.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/13 "2008-01-12T14:57:47Z")
> [@](#): > > A recycling scheme that produced 100 million litres of water a day would cost $285 million to build or $1.15 for every 1000 litres of water, according to a Sydney Water report dated August 17, 2005. I’m not seeing how they get $1.15 out of that; perhaps it’s the operating cost? Regardless, the construction number seems high: > [@](#): > > [(RO) desalination plant](http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSL2144653120071221) in Qidfa, Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates. > The plant will produce 136,500 cubic metres per day of desalinated water. > The contract, worth an estimated cumulated amount of $115 million ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/14 "2008-01-12T19:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=t-bonham@scc.net] But you don’t need to lay miles of pipe – there are these things called rivers that carry fresh water just fine. Much of California gets its’ water from the Colorado River, for example. The occasional dam, canal, intake filters, etc. are much less expensive than miles of pipe. [/QUOTE] Yes, but the OP is talking about “thirsty countries”. One would presume that a country full of rivers, dams and canals is not that thirsty to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![bluezooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@bluezooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluezooky)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/15 "2008-01-12T21:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] I’m not seeing how they get $1.15 out of that; perhaps it’s the operating cost? Regardless, the construction number seems high: [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t put too much faith in those figures with the governments “preferred outcome” being the desal plant which Sydney is getting whether we need it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/16 "2008-01-12T21:54:40Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Yes, but the OP is talking about “thirsty countries”. One would presume that a country full of rivers, dams and canals is not that thirsty to begin with. [/QUOTE] There are thirsty _parts_ of our non-thirsty country. While maybe it’s not California that’s sucking dry the Colorado river, all of the communities in the desert are doing so. I think only a trickle – if that – reach the Sea of Cortéz these days. Henderson (Las Vegas area), for example, prohibits new home construction with front grass! We in Michigan are water rich, and are fighting hard to prevent other states from “stealing” our water. Wired magazine had an article a few years ago about a state of the art desalination plant in Arizona or New Mexico, but for some reason a treaty with Mexico won’t let it come online. I don’t recall the details all that well. Maybe I’ll go look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/17 "2008-01-12T23:49:41Z")
Is desalinization even a word? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/18 "2008-01-13T00:04:26Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Is desalinization even a word? [/QUOTE] Er… OED says no. Apparently we mean desalination. > **[Oxford Languages](https://languages.oup.com/)** > > The home of language data ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/19 "2008-01-13T00:18:21Z")
Most of the world’s freshwater is used for agriculture. Approximately 70%. If we used the water more efficiently, drip lines, surge irrigation, grey water-there would be less water stress, decreasing the need for desalination plants. Another idea is the idea of virtual water. It’s better for many areas to import food that require large amounts of water, than to irrigate extensively. As to desalination plants, Ashkelon in Israel is the largest in the world. > **[Ashkelon Seawater Reverse Osmosis (SWRO) Plant, Israel - Water Technology](https://www.water-technology.net/projects/israel/)** It looks like the production cost is .52 per cubic meter of water. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259/20 "2008-01-13T01:04:15Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] It’s also rough on the environment. Much better is 4th stage waste water purification. It can be done cheaper than desalinizations, and it is hwaaaay better for the environment. The problem is, dudes don’t like the thought of drinking waste waster, no matter how pure. Of course, every glass of water we dring today is part recycled waste water, just that it has gone through Natures recying system. [/QUOTE] Just think of it as dinosaur piss coming out of your taps. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-cant-we-do-more-desalinization/433259.md?page=2)