# Why don't we establish a world government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885 "2013-03-03T03:58:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/41 "2013-03-03T14:05:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Since when is disliking a national government “bigotry”? If disliking Saudi Arabia is bigotry, how about dislike of the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany or WWII era Japan or Genghis Khan’s Mongolian Empire? He stated “people”. He said nothing about the “government”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/42 "2013-03-03T14:21:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > He stated “people”. He said nothing about the “government”. He said “Saudi Arabia”. SA is not a democracy, the people don’t _have_ a voice. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/43 "2013-03-03T15:38:29Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I certainly wasn’t born in one, nor did I grow up in one. D’oh! Stupid typo. That should read "I certainly wasn’t born in one, nor did my father grow up in one. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/44 "2013-03-03T15:43:16Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > If you consider the history of human development it is inevitable that eventually there will be one government to rule them all. Probably a federalist government initially to allow for differing national aspirations but ultimately, yes, we will see a world government. Common laws of commerce, civil rights, crime, and restitution are what we need and the gaps are slowly closing. > > The flip-side is corporate nationality which science fiction writers have predicted. That is a nasty future where your loyalty is to the company and not to your fellow citizens. I hope we never see this but with tax havens and global financing it is an end run game. Seriously, the tossed coin is in the air. I have though that one of the main reasons why a world government will come is precisely that end run game, the world government will come as people become more aware that corporations and many well to do already have very little loyalty for the states they reside and some organization will have to be present to deal with their abuses and tax avoidance. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/45 "2013-03-03T15:43:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > He said “Saudi Arabia”. SA is not a democracy, the people don’t _have_ a voice. The premise of the OP is that this one world government would be democratic and Bryan was upset at the idea of votes from certain groups of people he deemed culturally inferior having their votes count the same as his. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/46 "2013-03-03T15:50:35Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Doesn’t the United States give quite a bit of money in the form of foreign aid to a wide variety of programs? The much hated George W. Bush came up with an emergency AIDS relief plan to the tune of 15 billion dollars (not that there wasn’t some controversies with the program) so it seems to me that the United States has demonstrated that it gives a shit about other countries that are in serious trouble and not developed. True, but there are quite a few Americans who almost puke at the idea of having a world government out of condescension. They feel that since they are superior to other nations in the world, it would be a bad idea to establish this idea because America would have to spread its wealth in order to help other countries. I feel like this sense of superiority that the United States has over other nations is not good. In my opinion, we should be looking to become stronger as a world, rather than isolating ourselves from other nations because we are so self-centered to help them out. I think you’re right that the United States does give a shit about other countries in trouble or underdeveloped, but I also think the the United States needs to get over themselves and stop being so selfish every time someone suggests a world government. It’s part of the reason some people in the United States are opposed to a world government, and in my opinion, that line of thinking is wrong. > [@Odesio](#): > > What makes you think the majority of the world will support animal cruelty laws? They could, eventually. It certainly isn’t probable that animal cruelty would be a resolved issue as soon as a world government is created, but the point is that they _do_ have that power. Right now, no one can really do anything to stop animal cruelty in other nations because no such authority exists. With a world government, at least there will be potential to establish such laws, and as the world becomes more civilized with time, it may actually happen. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For the same reason most countries in the world aren’t functioning democracies. > > Why do you think all the world’s dictators are going to nod the their heads and say, “Ok, we give up”? What if the world government still allowed dictatorships in countries? The only difference is that while the dictator would still be in charge of their own country, the would have another level of authority above them. Let’s say dictatorships were allowed in individual states here in the United States. Someone could be the dictator of California, but still have federal government above them. Similarly, world governments could allow whatever form of government one wants to within their own nations. The only difference is that nations would have another level of government above them, and nations would have to abide to laws created by the world government. For example, if someone breaks a “world law”, then they would go to “world prison” like people who break federal laws go to federal prison. > [@Jragon](#): > > I think that we should work towards a one world government as a goal for decades or centuries from now, but note that it has to be something that takes a form much different from current governments (because of the immense cultural differences, among other things) and that it’s not something that can be rushed into. We also have to note that it’s not going to solve all of our problems magically. Civil wars happen after all. I agree with this. It would be nice if we could eventually establish a world government, but I don’t think it’s happening any time soon. I was just wondering, is there any current effort going into trying to create a world government? Or in other words, are there people trying to establish such a thing right now? I am pretty sure that it would take a long time, decades and/or centuries, but it would be a great thing if we could get it to work. > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I find this hard to believe. The majority of people live in countries where there aren’t even adequate-to-me human cruelty laws. World governments could create “human cruelty” laws as well. The point is that some of the unfairness in the world may be able to minimized if we have a world government that can outlaw cruel practices. This isn’t only about animal or even human cruelty; it applies to all unfair practices. Part of the reason that so many unfair practices still exist in other nations is that no such authority exists that can outlaw them. A world government is much more likely to be effective at outlawing unfair and cruel practices because they will actually have the power to do something about it. However there is one potential problem with this (which another poster has mentioned in this thread), and that is that if the majority of the world decides that all women should be second-class citizens and not be allowed to vote, etc., then we have an issue. So at the same time, we have to be careful that we don’t end up in that kind of situation. If it works out the wrong way, we may have _more_ unfairness and cruelty in the world. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/47 "2013-03-03T15:52:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The premise of the OP is that this one world government would be democratic and Bryan was upset at the idea of votes from certain groups of people he deemed **culturally inferior** having their votes count the same as his. Morally inferior. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/48 "2013-03-03T15:52:46Z")
I think its a bad idea. What happens when the one world government gets crappy? And I don’t mean run by dictators. What if it just generally gets worse and worse? And the solutions to solve the problems are the wrong ones and just exacerbate the situation? What choice does the populace have? Flee to Mars? Not practical. World wide revolution. That doesn’t sound so hot. It seems to me most human organizations, particularly when they are the only game in town (that you HAVE to play with), big to very big, and have no competition or other organizations to be compared with, will sooner or later go to shit. And I can’t afford to go to Mars. World peace and cooperation? Sure. But lets keep a bunch of various models going so we can see what works and what doesn’t and stay out of a one way road to hell. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/49 "2013-03-03T15:57:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t particularly like the fact that people in Utah have a say in my civil rights. I’d be \*really \*displeased if Saudi Arabia got a vote, too. > > Does that make me a bigot. I’m fairly confident that if you really thought about it, yes not granting votes to Arab and Iranian immigrants because you don’t like the policies of their respective governments on gays is bigotry. Similarly, I met one person who following the infamous vote on gay marriage in California when African-Americans overwhelmingly came out against it saying(after having several drinks in him) “Maybe they shouldn’t have been allowed to vote.” When he sobered up, he was horrified by his comment and promptly apologized to several of us for saying it and very clearly regarded the statement as bigoted, though he himself is not a bigot. I’m reasonably confident that you’d agree that claiming California’s African-Americans shouldn’t be allowed to vote on the Civil Rights of gay Americans is bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/50 "2013-03-03T16:02:55Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Morally inferior. Er… No, he made a value judgement about people’s worthiness to vote based solely on where they were born and what culture they were born into. People who think my father shouldn’t be allowed to vote or that they don’t want their votes to be “equal to his” because he was born and grew up in Iran are bigots. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/51 "2013-03-03T16:08:03Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I don’t mean a dictator or a king running the whole world; I mean a democratic type of world government. It just seems like there are laws that need to be established that the whole world must abide to. It’s about time humans stop fighting in their own species so much and starting so many wars, and learn to unite How many wars are international wars between sovereign countries versus internal civil wars, revolutions, insurgencies and ethnic conflicts within a country or region? A world government isn’t going to stop those. The fact is, between the UN, WTC and other IGOs, we already have a decent mechanism in place for countries to come together, discuss problems and reach agreements on an international level. Much of the problems in the world are in places that don’t have an effective national government. Besides. The EU is barely able to keep itself together. The US Federal Government can barely do anything and it’s just two parties. What would you expect a world government of hundreds of disparate states and cultures actually accomplish? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/52 "2013-03-03T16:36:39Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I don’t mean a dictator or a king running the whole world; I mean a democratic type of world government. It just seems like there are laws that need to be established that the whole world must abide to. Let me get this straight - there are laws that you feel need to be imposed upon the whole world and the answer is a world government. And you intend to impose these laws without a dictatorship but with a democracy. Has it occurred to you that most of the world not caring about or wanting these laws would cause problems with democratically imposing them upon the world? > [@](#): > > For example, the world government will be able to make animal cruelty laws. Animal cruelty is a huge problem, and the reason we aren’t getting very far in solving this problem is that we are not able to outlaw such unethical practices in other nations. However, if we have a world government, then we may be able to establish such laws, and be much more effective in fighting animal cruelty. The problem you feel is that we are not able to outlaw practices that you feel are unethical in foreign countries, but with a world government we will be able to make animal cruelty laws to impose upon the rest of the world. Democratically. The rest of the world doesn’t seem to think this a problem, so democratically such laws would never be passed. Yet you intend to have the world government write such laws, impose them upon the entire world, and do so by fiat and remain a democracy rather than a dictatorship? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/53 "2013-03-03T16:37:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Not really. > > You’re furious at the idea that people like me have our votes count the same as yours. Furious? Hardly. Distrustful with excellent reason that votes cast by people who don’t live in liberal democracies (which I assume is what you mean by “people like me”) will not respect human rights? Definitely. I’ll trust a black Canadian voter over, for example, a Saudi Arabian voter of any race. I might disagree with the black Canadian on some issues, but I feel it more likely that he (or _ **she** _) won’t want to make blasphemy a crime, or make freedom of the press a crime, or make being a rape victim a crime. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure how that’s dramatically different than all the people who objected to blacks getting the vote on the belief that blacks were somehow culturally inferior to whites. Well, unlike the racists, I can point to _actual_ events in Saudi and Iranian history (to pull up just two of the more obvious national examples - add in North Korea, if you like) that demonstrate that the democratic ideals I cherish could be voted away in a heartbeat if the citizens of those nations were were given equal footing in an important election as the citizens of Canada. > [@](#): > > The principal behind democracy is that everyone’s votes should count and that we shouldn’t discount votes based on the culture people were raised in. Well, let’s see those countries first _establish_ the principals of democracy, shall we, and see if they can hold onto them for at least 20 years without losing them to a military or theocratic coup. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t mean I think the OP wasn’t silly for reasons I already outlined but that hardly justifies bigoted bullshit. Well, I can’t _make_ you see the obvious difference between life in a democracy and life in a not-democracy. I hope you’ll figure it out eventually, as will all citizens of non-democracies. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/54 "2013-03-03T17:11:20Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Funny, last night I was going to ask why so many people absolutely **flip the fuck out in terror** at the idea of a one-world government, but decided against it. > > My view on the subject is that, **in principle** a world government is a good idea, and a great goal. However, my view is that it’s not at the present feasible, and perhaps even undesirable. Which of course is because too many of the world’s governments just aren’t in a position to be part of such a thing. The idea of Canada being in some kind of EU-like union with Europe, the USA, Australia, Japan et al. is intriguing enough for me to consider the arguments for and against it. But democratic, free countries can’t be in any “government” worth the name with a country like Burma or Saudi Arabia; there are no significant shared values between our nations’ governments. Any shared govenrment will be merely a forum and will at best be an agent for charitable works - which, of course, we already have. They have a big HQ in New York City. But the idea of a United Free World, which will eventually accept new applicants as they merit their inclusion, is very intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/55 "2013-03-03T17:14:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, let’s see those countries first _establish_ the principals of democracy, shall we, and see if they can hold onto them for at least 20 years without losing them to a military or theocratic coup. Iran actually had done so before the British and the US decided that they didn’t like what Iran’s Democratic leader was doing and then imposed the Shah on them. > [@](#): > > Well, I can’t make you see the obvious difference between life in a democracy and life in a not-democracy. I hope you’ll figure it out eventually, as will all citizens of non-democracies. Er…I’m a citizen of both Iran and the US. > [@](#): > > Well, unlike the racists, I can point to actual events in Saudi and Iranian history (to pull up just two of the more obvious national examples - add in North Korea, if you like) that demonstrate that the democratic ideals I cherish could be voted away in a heartbeat if the citizens of those nations were were given equal footing in an important election as the citizens of Canada. Ok, then point me to the events that occurred in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and North Korea where the citizens of each country voted away their rights. Is your contention that by voting Mosadegh into power, Iran prompted the US to install the Shah and therefore demonstrated that they can’t be trusted with the vote? Anyway, the people of East Germany, Poland, and South Africa can testify to the fact that your idea that people in dictatorships can’t be trusted with the right to vote is utterly moronic. You may feel that Black South Africans being allowed to vote in the 90s was mistake because they grew up in a non-democracy, but the rest of us don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/56 "2013-03-03T17:23:06Z")
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**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/57 "2013-03-03T17:25:34Z")
No. It is up to you to prove that a majority of the people in the world are pro-democracy. You seem to think that democracy is the natural state of mankind, and the fact that the whole world isn’t democratic is because of repression by powerful minorities. Myself, I’ve seen no evidence of this. If the Iranian people didn’t want the Ayatollahs in power, they’d get rid of them tomorrow. Din’t blame it on something that happened 60 years ago. They bear full responsibility for their own predicament. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/58 "2013-03-03T17:27:25Z")
I think it’s more likely that we destroy ourselves or blow ourselves back to the stone age than we get the point where a democratic world government comes into being. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/59 "2013-03-03T17:37:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If the Iranian people didn’t want the Ayatollahs in power, they’d get rid of them tomorrow. So then you’re saying that Black South Africans wanted the Apartheid government in power for all those decades before world pressure finally caused the government to collapse. I ask, because that is the logical conclusion to your claim. Do you also think that the Jews of Auschwitz wanted to get shoved into the showers that didn’t give off water? I ask, because the Jews in those camps vastly outnumbered the Germans so, by your logic, had they wanted to leave they could have done so at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885/60 "2013-03-03T17:40:16Z")
1. The death camps weren’t run by Jews, and black South Africans weren’t being oppressed by other blacks. The Iranians, OTOH, aren’t being oppressed by anyone but themselves. 2. I think this thread may be going a bit too far. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-establish-a-world-government/651885.md?page=4)