# Why don't we just build more prisons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231 "2010-04-07T02:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/41 "2010-04-07T13:44:18Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > At the prison my father ran they used to turn a profit every year until they passed that bill. That does sound an awful lot like slavery. Are we supposed to be sad his prison no longer turned a profit? It’s not like the prisoners were getting the money, but somehow you seem to think this is a benefit for its own sake. In any case there are a lot of for-profit prisons, so it’s clear someone can make money off of putting people in jail even if the state does not. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/42 "2010-04-07T13:46:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Conservatives: how about instead of building more prisons, you use the same amount of money to hire more cops and provide them with better training and equipment? Exactly - you either increase the penalty for crimes, or the perceived chance of getting successfully prosecuted when you commit a crime. If a person does not think they are going to get caught, it doesn’t matter how many prisons there are, and how nasty the conditions are there; it won’t have the desired deterrent effect. Spend the money on making sure people are caught and providing greater alternatives to a criminal lifestyle. I know it is dangerously touchy feely liberal and all, but kids sports aren’t smashing windows. That and undercut the earnings of drug dealers by legalizing their product. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/43 "2010-04-07T13:47:03Z")
> [@Jubal](#): > > Edited for readability. 'Cause I care for the community, see ? > [@Marley23](#): > > That does sound an awful lot like slavery. Are we supposed to be sad his prison no longer turned a profit? It’s not like the prisoners were getting the money, but somehow you seem to think this is a benefit for its own sake. In any case there are a lot of for-profit prisons, so it’s clear someone can make money off of putting people in jail even if the state does not. Prison has become a cottage industry today. It does not turn a profit for the prison anymore. It cost taxpayers 70-100 dollars a day per prisoner today to house and feed someone. People that work, the state and the government all chip in. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/44 "2010-04-07T13:53:19Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Prison has become a cottage industry today. It does not turn a profit for the prison anymore. _Why should it?_ Anyway, there are several for-profit companies that run prisons today. I’m sure it’s a small fraction of the number of prisons in the country, but they exist. So whatever law you are talking about did not make it impossible to make money on a prison. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/45 "2010-04-07T14:43:28Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Exactly - you either increase the penalty for crimes, or the perceived chance of getting successfully prosecuted when you commit a crime. If a person does not think they are going to get caught, it doesn’t matter how many prisons there are, and how nasty the conditions are there; it won’t have the desired deterrent effect. You also need to convince people that the system is reasonably fair, unless you want to go for an outright reign of terror. Because if people think that people are being thrown in prison for their race, beliefs, or anything else besides committing crimes, then they won’t be deterred against committing crimes by the police. They’ll try to avoid the police yes; but they’ll do that regardless of if they are committing a crime or not. It can even encourage crime; the “I might as well be hanged for a wolf as a sheep” principle; if you are going to be punished like a criminal, you might as well be one. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/46 "2010-04-07T14:54:52Z")
No disagreement here - we need buy in from as many people as possible. Part of that process is the elimination of racism and other forms of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/47 "2010-04-07T15:03:28Z")
> [@Perciful](#): > > Prison has become a cottage industry today. It does not turn a profit for the prison anymore. It cost taxpayers 70-100 dollars a day per prisoner today to house and feed someone. People that work, the state and the government all chip in. The second and third groups get their money from the first. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/48 "2010-04-07T15:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard:_ Convicted murderers, rapists, pedophiles, batterers, drunk drivers (yeah, that’s right), etc. should server their full prison sentence in every instance. Whether this requires more prisons, or perhaps another solution, this is what I based my OP on. _Der Trihs:_ > [@](#): > > What makes you think that most people in prison come under those categories? What makes you think that I think that? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/49 "2010-04-07T15:57:42Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > What makes you think that I think that? Probably the thread title. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/50 "2010-04-07T17:02:16Z")
I wonder if the OP actually thinks that criminals are a discrete class in their own right, and by putting them in prison we do a sort of ethnic cleansing of the criminal classess. This is very woolly thinking indeed. No matter where you look, there is crime, in all classess and all social divides. Things we used to consider immoral are now criminalised, especially soft drug use. How many folk would it take to reduce crime to a suffiently low level for the OP, at present in the US its 2 millions, we could multiply that several times and still we woul dnot get to eliminating crime, you might even argue that those who advocated such a widespread abuse of power have in turn become criminals themselves. I will tell you what will happen, the bar for longer, full life manadtory prison terms will be set lower, and all other prison terms will follow. There are no easy answers, if there had been then they would have been tried long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/51 "2010-04-07T19:03:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I wonder if the OP actually thinks that criminals are a discrete class in their own right, and by putting them in prison we do a sort of ethnic cleansing of the criminal classess. He might. But he would like you to elaborate. What is your meaning of ‘discrete class in their own right’? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/52 "2010-04-07T19:11:50Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > He might. But he would like you to elaborate. What is your meaning of ‘discrete class in their own right’? Please, don’t be coy. Since you’ve hinted–let us know exactly what you mean. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/53 "2010-04-07T19:19:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Like putting people in jail for using drugs. Wait a minute- that gives me an even better idea. Why not let people out of jail if they’re not a threat and stop locking these people up in the future? Then we might not need so many prisons in the first place. I know it sounds naive and simplistic but it would work and it wouldn’t be stupid. It is naive and simplistic. Let them out and they’ll promptly go back to breaking into houses to steal stuff to sell so they can buy drugs, or robbery, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/54 "2010-04-07T19:24:56Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It is naive and simplistic. Let them out and they’ll promptly go back to breaking into houses to steal stuff to sell so they can buy drugs, or robbery, or whatever. Because that’s exactly what happened after prohibition ended. Oh no, wait, it didn’t. You appeared to have missed the entire point. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/55 "2010-04-07T19:25:19Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It is naive and simplistic. Let them out and they’ll promptly go back to breaking into houses to steal stuff to sell so they can buy drugs, or robbery, or whatever. You’re suggesting that all the non-violent, otherwise non-criminal people in jail for possessing marijuana would suddenly become burglars and thieves if they were to be released? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/56 "2010-04-07T19:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re suggesting that all the non-violent, otherwise non-criminal people in jail for possessing marijuana would suddenly become burglars and thieves if they were to be released? I think it’s time we make a distinction between those described above (along with the mentally ill) and the remainder of the prison population. For the record, I am not in favor of housing ‘non-violent, otherwise non-criminal people’ who are busted (and imprisoned) solely for possession of marijuana in a prison. ETA: But a meth user who is on his third conviction for B & E? Damn right. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/57 "2010-04-07T19:59:48Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I think it’s time we make a distinction between those described above (along with the mentally ill) and the remainder of the prison population. > > For the record, I am not in favor of housing ‘non-violent, otherwise non-criminal people’ who are busted (and imprisoned) solely for possession of marijuana in a prison. > > ETA: But a meth user who is on his third conviction for B & E? Damn right. Then you should know that a great number of people who are in prison are indeed the non-violent, otherwise non-criminal type. Simply letting them free would solve a lot of the problems. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/58 "2010-04-07T20:28:25Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > ETA: But a meth user who is on his third conviction for B & E? Damn right. Wouldn’t it be cheaper and easer to just give him free meth? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/59 "2010-04-07T20:30:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Then you should know that a great number of people who are in prison are indeed the non-violent, otherwise non-criminal type. Simply letting them free would solve a lot of the problems. Do you have a cite for this? ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231/60 "2010-04-07T20:58:07Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > You’re suggesting that all the non-violent, otherwise non-criminal people in jail for possessing marijuana would suddenly become burglars and thieves if they were to be released? That’s what he’s suggesting. And it will be up to him and Chuck Norris to stop them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-just-build-more-prisons/535231.md?page=4)