# Why Don't We Kill Moqtada al-Sadr? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187 "2004-04-04T14:20:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/1 "2004-04-04T14:20:03Z")
What are the implications of killing Moqtada al-Sadr? He is the leader of a banned, radical, anti-American militia in Iraq. Since his newspaper was banned last week, his followers have been staging massive protests which have been turning more and more violent. Some of his followers are throwing themselves under American tanks to add to the anti-American hostilities in Iraq. He is a bad dude by all definitions and if he is still around after our June 30th withdrawl, he will be a constant menace to a stable Iraq. I think he’s gotta be taken out, but… Is this a case where if we strike the shepherd the sheep will scatter or is Sadr’s militia better organized than that? Most likely, his assassination will cause immediate protests/riots but how long would these last? Does the US have the ability to penetrate Sadr City and actually kill him? Would there be any major backlash in the wider Arab world? Does the US have a stated policy on Moqtada al-Sadr? What is keeping us from killing him? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/2 "2004-04-04T14:37:50Z")
Political assasinations should be condemned, period. The United States has scooped up thousands of bad people who carry out violence against our troops and Iraqi police, what is the possible advantage of carrying out premeditated murder in the manner that the Israelis have already been roundly condemned? ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/3 "2004-04-04T14:42:16Z")
The Sadr brigade is the largest, best trained, best armed private army in Iraq. You really don’t want a full fledged war again do you? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/4 "2004-04-04T18:47:50Z")
**Ravenman:** \*Political assasinations should be condemned, period. \* Political assassinations are **illegal** , period. The only rationale for extrajudicial killings that seems to be generally accepted as legitimate according to the Geneva conventions is when they’re combatants in an armed conflict. If our situation in Iraq is no longer officially “at war” but is rather dealing with guerrilla resistance to occupation, as I understand it, we are not allowed to take anybody out unless it’s to protect our own immediate safety when they are actively attacking us. I share your puzzlement about why we would want to assassinate anybody rather than arrest them, anyway. If we have an accurate enough fix on their location to know that we can take them out, why don’t we use it to take them in, instead? Obviously, if they’re breaking the law, we’re within our rights to arrest them and deal with them as lawbreakers. And if they’re not breaking the law, where do we get the idea that it’s okay to assassinate them? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/5 "2004-04-04T19:05:42Z")
> [@Mambo](#): > > What are the implications of killing Moqtada al-Sadr? Hmm, would we notice right away > [@](#): > > He is the leader of a banned, radical, anti-American militia in Iraq. Since his newspaper was banned last week, his followers have been staging massive protests which have been turning more and more violent. Some of his followers are throwing themselves under American tanks to add to the anti-American hostilities in Iraq. Depends on who gets to take him out , It may be a reconstituted Iraqi army or a very fetching britney spears look a like. Does the American government in Iraq have a top down list of how the mans organization works? Just poppin the pimple does not automatically get you some peace and quiet. > [@](#): > > He is a bad dude by all definitions and if he is still around after our June 30th withdrawl, he will be a constant menace to a stable Iraq. I think he’s gotta be taken out, but… To survive in that atmosphere , everybody is not a nice guy > [@](#): > > Is this a case where if we strike the shepherd the sheep will scatter or is Sadr’s militia better organized than that? Most likely, his assassination will cause immediate protests/riots but how long would these last? Does the US have the ability to penetrate Sadr City and actually kill him? Would there be any major backlash in the wider Arab world? Does the US have a stated policy on Moqtada al-Sadr? What is keeping us from killing him? If we don’t know how the militia is organizised , then its time to actually learn and hold off on whacking the guy . No idea about the protests , but I am sure the press can find a passing group of unemployed lads for an impromptue protest, if it cant be found in real life Does the US have the ability , yes Would it have backlash , most likely , but as the Israelis are finding out , the sun still rises while the arab world should have risen up in one massive wave. Even Yasser is asking the states for political garunteees that Israel will not try and kill him , which is stupid cause he is the one crying make me a martyr. In return to the question at hand , I expect that most people believe that Moqqie will soon be sleeping with the fishies , who does it and when are for a later time , and sooner or later Iraq will have to fight its own internal battles , even if that means a civil war. Declan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/6 "2004-04-04T20:40:04Z")
As Iraq gets more violent and dangerous, I have a feeling the cries from the right to go in there, kick some ass, blow stuff (and people) up will escalate. When you’re up to your ass in alligators… ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/7 "2004-04-04T21:19:10Z")
> [@](#): > > About three miles outside Najaf, supporters of anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr opened fire on the Spanish garrison during a street protest that drew about 5,000 people. The protesters were angry over the arrest of the cleric’s aide, said the Spanish Defense Ministry in Madrid. [20 Die in Iraq Protest; 2 Marines Killed](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040404/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716) This doesn’t seem to be looking better. 5,000 people in a demonstration? That is crazy. This isn’t just “insurgents left behind by Saddam” - this is a lot of really pissed off people. A firefight killing 20 protesters and 4 soldiers (American, Spanish, and 2 Iraqi) and injuring over 200 people is a major deal - and all of this is in protest ofan arrest of his _aide_. > [@](#): > > At a checkpoint in Samarra, about 60 miles north of Baghdad, that was manned by Iraqi Civil Defense personnel, a bomb killed three security officers and wounded another, workers at Samarra General Hospital said. > > In Kirkuk, also in the north, a car bomb exploded, killing three civilians and wounding two others, police said. Good luck stabilizing the country by June, Bremmer. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/8 "2004-04-04T21:35:48Z")
The notion that the Iraqi problem can be resolved by killing Iraqis is mind-boggling in its degree of stupidity. For every one that you kill you are making more enemies. And even if you kill \*all \* the Iraqis (which I hope no one is advocating) the rest of the Muslim world would take on the fight. This is a chain reaction which needs to be defused and instead some people think it can be finished by throwing more fuel into the fire. The stupidity is alarming and wouldn’t be so bad if it weren’t that some people who think like that are part of the US government. The situation is getting worse and in great part it is American actions making it worse. This is crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/9 "2004-04-04T21:40:02Z")
You know, for a country that killed over a million people in defense of the domino theory, we certainly didn’t take the lesson to heart in realizing that other people could look at us the same way. O\_o ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/10 "2004-04-04T21:42:25Z")
It is particularly mind boggling that the poster seems to have adopted wholesale the proposition that it is an offense (a hanging offense, it seems) to organize demonstrations! There is, in fact, a criminal sanction in place under the viceroy, for ?encouraging opposition to the occupation? And, of course, under our current system once you check in to the Hotel Bremer, you don?t check out for a long time and your calls are always held… ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/11 "2004-04-04T21:54:19Z")
Let’s see. Invade Iraq to set up a Democracy and then kill protestors. I’m sure it’s in the rule book somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/12 "2004-04-04T22:00:43Z")
> [@Mambo](#): > > He is a bad dude by all definitions and if he is still around after our June 30th withdrawl, he will be a constant menace to a stable Iraq. When we do _what_? The US isn’t withdrawing on June 30th, and has never planned to. Ground forces rotation plan: [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/images/oif2-rot.gif](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/images/oif2-rot.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/13 "2004-04-04T22:18:35Z")
While Maqtada al-Sadr might be the titular head of a militia, he is also a religious leader. So in a sense, assassinating him would be equivalent to assassinating, say, a Catholic bishop in the States. Granted, few Catholic bishops promote a message as violent as Maqtada’s, but hopefully you understand the gist of the metaphor. [Juan Cole](http://www.juancole.com/) is an indispensable source of information on these matters. He writes: > [@](#): > > \*\* Perhaps a third of Iraqi Shiites are sympathetic to the radical, Khomeini-like ideology of Sadrism, and _some analysts with long experience in Iraq put it at 50%_. Earlier Muqtada Al-Sadr, the movement leader, had called on his forces to avoid violence against Coalition forces. As of Sunday, he has decided that the Coalition means permanently to exclude his group from power, and _has decided to launch an uprising_. This uprising involves taking over police stations in Kufa, Najaf, Baghdad and possibly elsewhere. The Sadrist militia now controls Kufa, according to the New York Times, and probably controls much of Sadr City or the slums of East Baghdad, as well, though it has been expelled from the police stations it had occupied there.\*\* Nota bene: Sadrists are Shiites, not Sunnis. Up until now, most of the resistance to the US occupation has come from the so-called “Sunni triangle.” Muqtada’s uprising represents an expansion of violent resistance beyond its Sunni base. The entire cycle seems to have been sparked by an unfortunate set of circumstances. To begin with, the assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin by the Sharon government has pissed off a lot of Shiites, especially Sadrists, who believe the US shares blame for failing to condemn Israel over the killing: > [@](#): > > \*\*The more radical (!) young cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, also referred to the assassination in his Friday sermon in Kufa, next door to Najaf: “The attack on Sheikh Yassin is an attack on Islam and America is responsible for this aggression by remaining silent.” > > WorldNet reports that al-Sadr railed against the U.S. presence in Iraq, urging the worshippers to “seek the spread of freedom and democracy in the way that satisfies God.” They have planned and paved the ways for a long time, but it is God who is the real planner - and the proof of this is the fall of the American Twin Towers." Referring to the attacks that killed 3000 innocent Americans, he said, “As we say, ‘The rain starts with a drop.’” > > Al-Sadr termed Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon the “biggest terrorist of all” for taking out Yassin, a leader of an organization that has massacred innocent Israeli children, women and students with suicide bombings. He added that Sharon “has committed this dirty crime and killed one of the greatest of Islamic mujahedeen . . . This was once again a dirty crime against Islam.” > > He said the US was an accomplice in the assassination, according to CNN. Then he "led worshippers in chants: “No, no Israel! No, no to the Jews! No, no America! No, no to terrorism!”\*\* After this, the CPA decided to close down Muqtada’s newspaper, charging it with fomenting violence (I have been given to understand that it had been consistently printing incendiary falsehoods about the CPA anyway). This led to protests: 1000 protesters on Monday, 5000 by the next Saturday. Muqtada’s Baghdad representative gave a speech, saying in part: > [@](#): > > **…the U.S. and proxy Iraqis have created “streets full of thieves, carjackers and rubbish,” _encouraged adultery by trying to crack down on so-called honor killings_ and flirted with reconciliation of the reviled Baath Party by only dismissing from jobs top tier workers who swore allegiance to Saddam’s movement. “We fought Saddam, and now we’re fighting the Americans,” the sheik said. "Listen America, Britain and Israel, there’s a man named Muqtada Sadr and he gives resistance fighters their courage."** (For those who don’t know, an “honor killing” is when a man kills a woman – his wife, daughter, sister, or other family member – for adultery or other acts that can be construed as “dishonoring” his family. One of the less savory customs in that part of the world.) Finally, yesterday, the US arrested Mustafa Yaqubi, one of Muqtada’s top aides and the head of his Najaf office (where the majority of the violence occurred today). I took the US decision to arrest Yaquabi as a warning to Muqtada, but Juan Cole suggests it might have been in response to the shooting of the police chief in Kufa, Muqtada’s hometown. All of these events, taken together, have simply simmered over. Whew. Muqtada is one of the most important members of the Shiite community, and arresting or executing him would probably result in civil war. Sistani would almost undoubtedly throw his weight behind armed resistance as well, should the US try to do something so foolish. Hope that helps answer your question, **Mambo**. ---
**Author:** ![Mambo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a587f6/32.png) [@Mambo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mambo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/14 "2004-04-05T00:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=alaricthegoth] It is particularly mind boggling that the poster seems to have adopted wholesale the proposition that it is an offense (a hanging offense, it seems) to organize demonstrations! QUOTE] I said no such thing. Sadr is fomenting violence as a means of being in a advantageous position when the the handover takes place. He is not simply organizing demonstrations. As long as he is alive and free we cannot pull out of Iraq or else he very possibly could take over the country (or a substantial portion). This thread is to discuss the best solution to dealing with Sadr. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/15 "2004-04-05T00:38:01Z")
If you make Sadr a martyr… How many others do you reckon are standing in the wings ready to take his place? ---
**Author:** ![verybdog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/49beb7/32.png) [@verybdog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/verybdog)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/16 "2004-04-05T00:43:37Z")
As the good old Ben once said, there is never a good war and a bad peace. My solution to this is - Bush to admit invading Iraq was a mistake, and then get the soldiers out of Iraq as fast as we can. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/17 "2004-04-05T00:43:41Z")
I don’t think there _is_ a good way of dealing with him, but killing him or jailing him is probably the worst. We can barely handle our problems in the Sunni Triangle on a good day; if the Shi’ites take to the streets in large numbers to oppose us (on an ongoing basis, that is), that’s the end: there would be no good way out; if that happens, we might as well just pick up and leave. And killing or arresting al-Sadr would do just that. I think we have little choice but to let him re-open his newspaper and hope things quiet down. But don’t worry, even if things go to hell over there, the CPA press office will still be writing [little happy-news releases](http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw95642_20040404.htm) about how wonderfully things are going, since they believe their job is to make the American taxpayer believe everything’s peachy, and besides, they want Bush re-elected. > [@](#): > > “Beautification Plan for Baghdad Ready to Begin,” one press release in late March said in its headline. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-dont-we-kill-moqtada-al-sadr/238187/18 "2004-04-05T00:57:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But don’t worry, even if things go to hell over there, the CPA press office will still be writing [little happy-news releases](http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw95642_20040404.htm) about how wonderfully things are going, since they believe their job is to make the American taxpayer believe everything’s peachy, and besides, they want Bush re-elected. Bremmer has become the new Bagdhag Bob. Every day you hear his triumphal declarations as things are getting worse and violence is mounting. he just ignores all that and continues with his rosy speeches. What a clown.